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Magical Meghan and the ongoing PR campaign

In her famous New Yorker essay, a different Meghan - the writer Meghan Daum - confesses that even as her life crumbled because of overwhelming credit card debt, she still bought fresh flowers every day. "I have a compulsive need to keep fresh-cut flowers in my apartment at all times," Meghan Daum wrote.

Meghan Markle, who is still the Duchess of Sussex although no longer HRH Duchess of Sussex, also has a spending compulsion. She must have PR, a habit that started when she was an up-and-coming actress and continues today.

Even now - when she is desperate for income and effectively homeless - Meghan Markle has managed to keep her PR machine rolling.

God only knows who is paying for it.


Trying to be a distraction

One might guess that when the world is gripped by the coronavirus crisis, people might not be interested in a mid-level celebrity couple.

But Meg hasn't let that stop her - perhaps she's hoping to be a "Tiger King" type distraction for people who can't bear to read more bad news.

Unfortunately, the things people really want to know about Meg are things she is unwilling or unable to discuss.

How's Archie?  "Sorry, no photos."  So, tell me about your new house?  "That's confidential." What really went on between you and the Royal Family?  "You'll have to wait for the book."

Instead, we've had day after day of PR stories of stuff that pretty much nobody is interested in.

Strange stories

Today's top story on Page Six (probably lifted to that spot by one of Meg's famous bot farms) is "Meghan Markle's real name and title revealed on Archie's birth certificate." Hm. Her real name is Rachel, she's a princess due to her marriage to Harry, and that (possibly faked) birth certificate is nearly a year old. Why is this news?

Yesterday the Telegraph's fashion page, which has long been bizarrely supportive of poorly-dressed Meghan, ran a story headlined: "The exercise regime responsible for Meghan's new body."

The article was a puff piece about an exercise studio founder; it wasn't until the end of a lengthy paragraph 3 that the writer added that the founder's "personal clients include Carey Mulligan, the actress, and the Duchess of Sussex. (Meghan was spotted at the Heartcore Kensington studio when she moved to London and instantly liked its menu of stretching, barre work, free weights, TRX, yoga and low impact cardio.)"

So his trainer worked with Meg 3 years ago when she first arrived in London? Big news. Was "Meghan's new body", as promised in the headline, established in 2017?

Also, is Meg still a client? She's in LA now, but does she use the trainer's online program?

The trainer doesn't know, and neither does the Telegraph.  "She says her data can’t tell her whether Meghan’s logging on. But given how addictive that post-class buzz of toned, lengthened and stretched out muscles is, it would be odd if the Duchess wasn’t keeping up with Heartcore."

OK, this is not what they taught us in journalism school. The Telegraph has literally 0% proof that Meg is involved with this fitness programme. Why are they mentioning her name?

Unless, of course, they've been paid to.

The Daily Mail chimes in 

Paid placement in the Daily Mail Online is an open secret; the Kardashians have been doing it for years, and so have many other reality TV types who make much of their income from "dates" with men who discover them in the Mail.

Even the Chinese Communist Party is getting in on the action: today the Mail published a story and Tweet asking "Has China won the war for global supremacy?"  (No, but they've proven how far the MailOnline's owner, Viscount Rothermere, will go for a pay cheque.)

The Daily Mail plays a consistent role in Meg's PR campaign, publishing stories about her almost every day. 

In the past three days, we've learned from the Daily Mail that Prince Harry assisted with her (awful) narration of an elephant documentary, that she had not seen her mother Doria since returning to Los Angeles, that Meg's UK-based facialist found her "kind and down-to-Earth", and that Meg would like to return to acting but would "only work with A-list directors, like Ava Duvernay"


Oh, please do take some time off, Meg. I dare you.

But I don't think you can. 

Comments

I hate to start a thread off with a boring comment, but DAMN, I love this blog so much. Thank you, Nutty. This place is like an island of sense in the internet's ocean of fawning Markle bullshit (I'm glaring at YOU, Dlisted). So, thank you! :-)
Unknown said…
Meg would make a fortune if Archie’s birth came out to be a true scandal. However what we are facing now, I just don’t see anyone caring about just Meg anymore and that includes most of her ardent fans. She alone is not compelling in any way, shape, or form. No matter what she does, she’s just Prince Harry’s wife and possibly Archie’s mother.
SirStinxAlot said…
So true @charade. What a sad thing for that child to learn later in life. He will forever be mocked for his parents endless blunders. Just saw a post on Facebook about the Sussex cringeworthy announcement claiming they could use Royal if they want to. The media is not going to let them live that disrespect down anytime soon. Most commenters sympathize with the RF. She is nothing more than a gold digging social climber z list actress.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
SirStinxAlot said...
So true @charade. What a sad thing for that child to learn later in life. He will forever be mocked for his parents endless blunders.
______________________________

Unless he isn't.

Don't want the world to end "not with a bang, but a whimper" as T.S. Eliot said -- keeping my chin up as long as possible.

People like the Harkles are amoebae, ruining everything they touch just by "being." Even pond scum can eventually ruin anything.
fordgirl81 said…
I don't know there but Netflix Latinoamérica has the third season (2020) of The Windsors! The new season has MM and they show her as a woke controlling person who writes messages on bananas and Harry (they changed the actor) as an alcoholic. I am in episode three and the show is so funny! And they are being really soft on MM.
CookieShark said…
I think the sledgehammer PR is a symptom of her narcissistic personality. Before Harry, I think the Tig was her outlet for this. Then she started dating Harry,and there was the magazine story and some pap walks. I think after the wedding she struggled with not being the focus of so much attention anymore. Then came the pregnancy, and all of 2019 was all about her. If her real goal was to just stay at home and cook for Harry, she would just do that. But her real goal seems to be to stay in the headlines. Not even the pandemic slows her down. She must pay a fortune for PR and security, things she has convinced herself she needs.
Fairy Crocodile said…
Good post Nutty. It is clear to everybody with a brain that for someone in Meg's position even a short time out of spotlight will mean a gigantic leap into oblivion. Her PR must be spending huge sums. The problem is she is losing relevance. She belongs to yesterday.
lucy said…
@nutty how much do you suppose she pays per article ran? what does something like that run?
abbyh said…

Thank you Nutty. Another raising questions piece.

I wonder a couple of things:

Not just how much is an article?

but how where is the money coming from?

If she is in arrears, would they keep accepting work from her?

If she were floating it on credit, would the threat of bankruptcy allow her to pressure the BRF to pay the bills?

Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
abbyh said...

Thank you Nutty. Another raising questions piece.

I wonder a couple of things:

Not just how much is an article?

but how where is the money coming from?

If she is in arrears, would they keep accepting work from her?

If she were floating it on credit, would the threat of bankruptcy allow her to pressure the BRF to pay the bills.
_____________________________________________


WHERE is the money coming from?
Scandi Sanskrit said…
"will only work with A-list directors" (because everything that's been offered to her is cheesy & beneath her) 😂😂

EXCUSE YOU????

God, I *wish* my PR parody account was that funny! I'm actually jealous of the writer's talent in comedy writing, great stuff...👏🏼

Can you imagine what *real* directors must think when they read that stuff? It's hilarious. I almost feel sorry for Meghan... ALMOST. but not quite. 🤣

Regina George was in car commercials in Japan.

Also, I'm sad I haven't seen "Tiger King" (the trailer alone looks better than "Lion King", which means it's technically better than "Hamlet" 💀).

I'm sorry to the poor elephants, but the Tiger King is more compelling than the voice over HRH Just Harry hustled for MADAME MARKLE. I still care about elephants as a species & would never support ivory trade, but I think I can care about the elephants without having to endure MADAME MARKLE'S voice. The things people do to those creatures is heart-wrenching enough...

I don't think I've ever wanted Netflix so much in my life (except for maybe to see Laurence Fox play a Buddhist Coke dealer, it just sounds dirty AF 🔥 and I hope they didn't put concealer on his tattoos).

I use the best internet provider (and mobile provider) in Indonesia, the best company with the best connection. Unfortunately, that company is also partially/majority state-owned (so if the Indonesian government says block Netflix, Scandi has no Netflix). The other companies allow Netflix, but there's no guarantee the connection will be stable enough for streaming. So sad. I can't justify paying a subscription for something I'll need a VPN for.

Gay Drunk Patriots Fan: first of all, that's not a boring comment, that's a kind one. 💜🍹 Second of all, even if it were boring, at least your username isn't boring.
Sylvia said…
@Lt Lyota Uhura
Hope this article copied from Page Six might help with your question
A spokesman for Sunshine Sachs said it is not advising Markle personally, and denied that the Duchess said she wants to “break the internet.”

“We briefly worked on the Vogue project in the US market and were retained in the past few weeks for the launch of Travalyst in the US market,” Chris Bastardi said, referring to Prince Harry’s “sustainable travel” initiative.

He added that Prince Harry is paying the Sunshine Sachs consulting fees out of his own pocket.



Sylvia said…
https://pagesix.com/2019/09/07/meghan-markle-reportedly-hires-new-pr-team-to-break-the-internet/
luxem said…
Did HM give the Harkles a "Going Away" gift from her personal account to smooth over the hurt feelings about SussexRoyal usage? Instead of saving for a rainy day, they are spending it on PR?
Sylvia said…
centered’
More page six on going PR April

“The messy bun purely came off the back of making the hair both appropriate and adhering to royal protocol, and modern at the same time,” he explained. “We wanted it to be up, because a lot of the time it was appropriate for it to be up, but we didn’t want it to be too formal. We always wanted it to be refined imperfection — that’s what sums her up.”

George MM haurstlist wedding day hair
Sylvia said…
https://pagesix.com/2020/04/01/meghan-markles-hairstylist-george-northwood-breaks-his-silence/
The PR article by MM hairstylist
MaLissa said…
Sylvia said...

He added that Prince Harry is paying the Sunshine Sachs consulting fees out of his own pocket.


So in other words the Bank of Pa. Charles really need to cut them off. He's already paying for their ridiculous security and upped the rents on his tenants at the Duchy. Sigh. Exhausting pair.

Thank you Nutty for providing me and others with a space to have a laugh at this awful time. I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. This is my morning ritual after getting a cup of coffee. Have a great day everybody!!
Piroska said…
I used to read the Telegraph in the far distant days when it was a quality newspaper. This papers fashion pages always have been a bit odd. I once had cause to interview the fashion editor and she was one of the most badly dressed and messiest lookuing women I have ever met.
I am disgusted also by the fact that this rag charges for access to articles about Covid19.
As far as the Mail is concerned I think that the articles now published are intended to attract adverse comment. The paper has ceased moderating most comments and you are now much more likely to see your comment appear if fact many commentin have said that they only read the headline or at most the first few lines of the article then go directly to the comments
Sandie said…
Well said, Nutty Flavor!

Unless she is going to publish photographs of her, Harry and Archie (Harry says no), she has no new content at all but the PR wheel must spin.

Here is a puff piece in the Sun for today (Sunday):

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11329104/meghan-markle-doria-los-angeles-coronavirus/

Really, Meghan? You do realise, Meghan, that all your 'supporters' will be stupid people who are, well, too stupid to not only think for themselves, but think at all. What do you do with a bunch of stupid people, but first, let's look at that PR piece in the Sun:

* Your father dismissed in one paragraph. Considering your own actions, to try and justify ghosting your father in the way you do is 'rather' hypocritical. You have a narcissistic grudge that you will never let go of and he does not fit into the image you want to create for yourself.
* Nothing about Doria spending time with you when you were in Canada, which would have been very easy for her to do as she does not have a job, has a housemate to help with the dogs, and you were in Canada for months before the coronavirus social distancing, self-isolation and lockdowns started. You and Doria are not close but it is useful PR to keep pushing this story and you still find her a useful ally, especially of you have to play up the WOC angle to get a pay cheque/market.
* Coronavirus has pretty much shut down the world so there is no work for you (who the heck would be making commercials in the Far East at this time?). You are not 'taking time off' because there is no work for you, and who the heck takes so much time off anyway, and then produces nothing of value or significance in that time? (All the time added together, at best one month of work since you took off for maternity leave, which was more than a year ago.) You are not taking time off, you are unemployed!
* Still thinking about what to do as a philanthropist? It is sort of like deciding that you want to be a writer and then spending most of your life thinking about what you can write and how but never actually producing any writing. The most effective philanthropy is that which is driven by a genuine life-long interest, to the extent of being an obsession, in something. If you have to think about what you are interested in (other than the image of being a philanthropist), then you should perhaps think of another career.

What could you do that is all online and does not require you to leave home other than for shopping, beauty treatments, socialising and travelling, and that you can start right now? (By the time the coronavirus pandemic ends, you would have built up the following to get the merching deals and freebies.) Judging by your content on The Tig, here are some suggestions for The Tig Reloaded:
* Photographs of yourself accompanied by a woke saying, usually not credited, of the day (daily inspiration with Meghan)
* Photographs of yourself with dogs, usually on your bed or on a couch (at home with Meghan today)
* Photographs of yourself socialising, at a party or restaurant, with a friend (cue Markus) or whatever celebrity is in the vicinity and will pose with you (socialising with Meghan)
* Photographs of food, drinks, books or flowers with a cryptic message (not appearing in a photograph to fuel speculation should be kept to a minimum)
* Photographs of yourself, occasionally with friends, at a holiday destination with local attractions only featuring if they form an appropriate backdrop for Meghan (travelling with Meghan)
* Photographs of you with Archie and a woke 'mothering' quote of the day ... reluctant to go there and Harry says no, but it would be a winner (mothering with Meghan)
CookieShark said…
Her wedding hair was a mess
xxxxx said…
Thanks N! Another long one!
Today's top story on Page Six (probably lifted to that spot by one of Meg's famous bot farms)
If I'm so smart how come I (xxxxx) don't have a bot farm working for me? And for mere pennies per day.
@Gay Drunk Patriots Fan: if you think that DListed is bad, take a look at Celebitchy. Those people are rabid - even the mildest criticism of MM is met with cries of racism and misogyny. In their view, MM is an angel, a great humanitarian and feminist, and just a wonderful, wonderful person. The BRF? All toxic racists! Her family? Toxic racists! His (now former) friends? Toxic racists! As are the media and anyone else who doesn't worship MM.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Sylvia said...
@Lt Lyota Uhura
Hope this article copied from Page Six might help with your question
A spokesman for Sunshine Sachs said it is not advising Markle personally, and denied that the Duchess said she wants to “break the internet.”

“We briefly worked on the Vogue project in the US market and were retained in the past few weeks for the launch of Travalyst in the US market,” Chris Bastardi said, referring to Prince Harry’s “sustainable travel” initiative.

He added that Prince Harry is paying the Sunshine Sachs consulting fees out of his own pocket.

_______________________________

"Sustainable travel" my foot.


Svetlana said…
Barbara from Montreal: a visit to Celebitchy is almost as scary as the pandemic. Rabid is a good word for the posters. Any and all comments that are not in complete adoration of Markle are set upon with a vengeance. And that’s if they get published at all.
xxxxx said…
Megsy has always had an ever changing cast of PR men and women. With Hollywood shutdown, she can engage effective PR on the cheap these days. In fact multiple PR flacks and flunkies to do her bidding. As in whispering this and that to Page Six, DM, The Sun, The Express, People magazine in USA, etc.
Why pay for the expensive Sunshine Sachs PR machine when the L.A. region is full of young up and comer PR agents who are almost as good? The Bank of Charles approves of this move to economize. Same as M$H will be saving on hiring local private security. Who this absurd Libby Duo want to have gun carry permits.
Hikari said…
@Scandi, Charade and anyone who has noticed my verbose offerings missing for a while:

Thanks for your concern; I am absolutely fine and have been hunker down at home with my cat for the last two weeks. I’ve been lurking in reading but not posting because I really don’t find myself with anything new to say about the now completely irrelevant HAMS. Such incredible self-absorption as they both display at the time of a global pandemic is beyond repugnant. Even if her elephant video hadn’t been such a disaster, and I’m saving that little treat for some day when I think I can stand to listen to it, it’s hard to imagine a post apocalyptic world such as we will be dealing with later this year, will have any time whatsoever for washed up former prince and has sociopathic grifting wife with her delusions of stardom. Harry may retain the courtesy title of Prince on account of being Charles’s son, but it has as much royalty attached to it as the late artist Prince, or MJ’s eldest Prince Michael. Harry’s nothing but a trashy footnote now.

In our current world, with hundreds of thousands dead and nearly every family poised to be affected by sickness and loss of this plague, the plague known as MarkleVirus Has been affectively neutralized at least. By her insistence on petrol bombing the Royal family and her undeserving berth within it, She has effectively Markled herself. Destruction is Meg’s only talent, And she’s so good at it she’s managed to ruin herself, With Harry as collateral damage. Oh, they’ll probably scrounge a few million here and there...People have always flocked to freak shows and willingly bought tickets. But I don’t think Meg realizes, in her self delusion, that people flock to freak shows to jeer, not to admire. And she has got to be one of the biggest American freaks and frauds ever to come down the pike.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
@svetlana, @xxxxx --

You both make good sense, sadly.

The thing is, Markle will never prevail.

Never.

Too many of us have her number.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Hikari said...
@Scandi, Charade and anyone who has noticed my verbose offerings missing for a while:.....

Harry may retain the courtesy title of Prince on account of being Charles’s son, but it has as much royalty attached to it as the late artist Prince, or MJ’s eldest Prince Michael. Harry’s nothing but a trashy footnote now.
___________________________________________

Could not have said it better.
Animal Lover said…
Nutty

Thanks for this blog and the questions you pose.

It's curious how we we're getting so many insipid stories about M considering she's doing nothing. The only time Harry is mentioned is in relation to her.

As far as M and the Tiger King goes, Tiger King is a compelling story with real albeit crazy people, endangered animals. M is just a cipher. Notice none of her documentaries got the viewers and positive ratings as Tiger King.

If I were the Obamas I'd be very insulted with repeated claims of:

The closest comparison to Meghan and Harry will be the Obamas and what they’re actually doing, I mean they’ve created an entertainment entity where they’re producing documentaries and I think that will be a similar route that Meghan and Harry can certainly take.

Speaking of racism, how dare they put themselves in the same league as the Obamas who are very well educated and accomplished while M & H are not. The families the Sussexes are closer to appear on reality TV shows.

Again IMO this is M putting out there the comparison to the Obamas hoping Netflix or some other entity will bite.

abbyh said…

Hilari - missed your thoughts especially when the talk of ads in Japan. You have a nice knowledge base.

the absolute irelavance will be bone crushing as people turn more and more toward just hand to mouth existence between crying jags at the loss of their family and friends

no amount of money thrown at this will turn the attention toward her/them in any sort of way except to compare in a Let them eat cake kind of way for a long time

Nutty? people are reading. would you be open to running a just books, not a daily kind of run update? If not, I understand. That offer is still out there if you think you might want back up by the way.
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
CookieShark said…
I am sure MM is gnashing her (new) teeth as she is finally up against an opponent she can't control, smooth talk, or bulldoze over...Covid-19.

Any further attempts from her and Harry to trash the RF, I predict, will not go over well. HMTQ is a symbol of stability and comfort for everyone right now. MM has caused chaos from day one. She must be kicking herself as to why she and Harry insisted on leaving the RF, when they simply could have worked less.

In the months following the lift on lockdown, people will simply be trying to survive. No one will have the funds nor the desire to travel to remote destinations. It will take years for the travel industry to recover from this in general.
brown-eyed said…
@Hikari: Missed you and your posts.

Loved this quote from MM’s hairdresser:

“The way she approaches things is how an everyday woman would approach things — she has a real sense of style and she wanted to look approachable, even though she was a princess,” he said.”

Don’t you get the feeling that the princess title is important to MM, just as the HRH title did?

Really getting tired of staying home. We walk everyday, but I really miss my friends and family, especially the grandchildren who grow so fast. We are FaceTiming, which helps. Thankful we and our family are healthy and have adequate supplies.
Genia said…
I had lived in Japan as a foreigner and continue to travel there for pleasure. Regarding Meghan making commercial in Japan, I highly doubt this and if true it's Harry they want, not Meghan. The Japanese are big on "high class" or things and people associated with definition of "high class". It's not so much a snobbery thing as is Japanese obsession with quality. Since high class has been synonymous in the West as being high quality, the Japanese has integrated this phrase into their social vocabulary. The BRF is seen as high class by the Japanese because they're considered dutiful and low-key aside from being born into it. A comparison is with the Chinese crass obsession with luxury and status symbol goods, procuring them to be seen as wealthy because it's what rich people do. The Japanese OTOH consider luxury differently, in that they will pay premium for goods made by skilled, local craftsmen, it doesn't have to be name labels just top quality. Again, the key word is quality.

Aside from perceptions of high class, there's another type of Western celebrities making commercials in Japan, and that is the perception of them being big stars. You can be a big star who's on the way down but not so much so. The idea of Western celebs being much in demand for Japanese commercials, it's not true anymore and hasn't been for a while. Reason being East Asian stars are now appreciated on an International level. So instead of 2003 with Britney making commercials in Japan, it's now K-Pop idols plus other popular models and actors.

Once Harry's behavior sinks more into the Japanese consciousness he won't be considered quality or dutiful anymore. Once Harry's star dims then so will Meghan's. They're not movie stars or talented people. Lastly, the Japanese do not look kindly to people who ditch their parents or to celebs who crassly promote themselves.
brown-eyed said…
@elle: glad you are back.
HM's broadcast goes out in a little over an hour and a half. It'll be brief, entire thing scheduled for 5 minutes.

Wait for the repercussions from LA...

Then it'll be `Take cover! Incoming!!!'
Portcitygirl said…
Elle so happy to see you🙏 please don't go!!!

Cookie Shark you crack me up with your humor.😄😊
Mischief Girl said…
Wait, wait, wait--WHAT???

The Harkles need "a break" for a few months?

All they've done for the past year is been on break!

I have to laugh. In the midst of a very unfunny pandemic, the Harkles have been totally and completely neutered. They add NOTHING to anyone's lives right now. They are USELESS.

It'll take a miracle for them to become pertinent again once Covid-19 dies down, and that won't be for months at least.

The Harkles timing was so spectacularly bad to leave financial security when they did.

They are spectacularly irrelevant in this new world we live in. Go away and take a break, $mirkles. We will all have moved on when you are ready to return to public life.
QueenWhitby said…
@Elle I’m glad you’re back too. I look very forward to your posts.
Anonymous said…
Now that I've read all of the comments, I'm going to make this easy:

Take @Nutty's post, add @Sandie's, @The Lt's, @Hikari's, @AbbyH's comments,
shake,
pour into an icy glass,
and sprinkle with all of the other insightful comments, and you've got the perfect contemptini, figuratively speaking.

I don't have much to add except to say I'd never thought of the PR addiction this way before reading Nutty's post, but yes, it's like Rach is a PR Hoarder and the virtual boxes are stacked to the ceiling. It doesn't matter what's in them or if she already has a box filled with the same thing. It doesn't need to be relevant, useful, timely, or truthful. It just needs to be more, more, more.


@Charade re this: Meg would make a fortune if Archie’s birth came out to be a true scandal. Do you mean from all of the articles and interviews? I can see that happening, but at this point, do you think there's any positive way for her to spin this so that this cash grab wouldn't utterly destroy her? I can argue it both ways, but am interested in your thoughts :)



And while I don't have much to add in terms of answers, I do have some "out there" questions related to PR. I have no answers, but...:

Could that "will only work with A-list" directors PR have come from someone other than Rach? Someone intent on revealing who she really is?

The reason I wondered that is because there seems to be (at the very least) two fronts on the BRF PR.

The first, the one I expected: the we're so shocked and hurt and we love them and we really, really tried and did we mention we're so shocked and hurt and that we gave her everything and we really, really tried? bit. I have always thought that would be their tack. And I'm sure the some are hurt and others are incandescent with rage still. But shocked? Not sure I'm buying that last bit as much since anyone with any sense could see Rach coming from outer space, and W&K had the scarves at the ready. But it sure bolsters their defense.

The second front is the drip-drop (and the drops are getting bigger) leaks of behind the scenes stuff that is coming out (obvs from BRF sources) that paints a picture of an unpleasant Dumbarton duo. Those leaks stir anger already there, poking the bear. And they protect the BRF and support the 'really, really tried' front.

But could there be a third front?

I remember that some of us thought the "they'll make millions! billions! They'll be fabulous globally!" might have come from the BRF and not the Dumbartons. Ditto with some of the comments about who was advising her. That forced Obama and celebrity hands to come out and make statements against. It was quite undermining and made the Dumbartons look like silly graspers (which, of course, is just holding up a mirror to the truth).

Could this "A List" piece be part of that? Because it sure makes her look really awful, but what is she going to do about it? Come out with a piece that says "no, I don't!". If so, how does she do that?

I know nothing about PR and would love to hear Nutty's thoughts and those of other Nuttiers in the know re how much this costs and how these stories can be placed.
Rory Gman said…
Whatever PR fluff her people put out will never compare to the rock solidness of HM. HM has built a 70+ year of unwavering reputation of putting the people of the UK first. MM has no foundation whatsoever and no matter how much PR fluff is fed to us, will she will never be held in any high regard. MM is at best, bathroom reading and soon forgotten. William and Katherine are following in HM footsteps and slowly building the foundation to their service of the UK regardless of the occasional hit piece put out by, I assume, MM's people.

MM's thirst is typical of many Hollywood's starlets and she hit the lottery by snagging feckless Harry. But, like many lottery winners, she truly does not understand that unchecked windfalls can also lead to downfall...both personal and financial. No amount of PR can help those whose thirst out weighs rationality. MM is the antithesis of HM and what the monarchy stands for. It is just as well that she and JH jumped ship because neither have what it takes to be anything but an embarrassment to the monarchy.

On a side note, I enjoy everyone's insightful comments. I am married to an Englishman and love reading about the monarchy. Stay safe everyone.
Anonymous said…
@CookieShark True statement! It will take years for the travel industry to recover from this in general.

It's almost like the Universe heard the Dumbartons say they were "coming together as a catalyst for change" to make travel more environmentally responsible (with a cut from the travel and credit card industries, of course lol) and the Universe replied,

"You know what, I've got a better idea. Hold my contemptini..."
Sylvia said…
Christopher Wilson article today's uk Sunday Express is brutal


Just before Edward VIII abdicated, he was the nation’s pin-up.

Weeks later the joke was: “He used to be Admiral of the Fleet, now he’s the third mate on an American tramp

Interesting that MM's PR people are planting stories in the tabloids. Wasn't it the mean, nasty tabloids that made her life so miserable the Harkles had to leave the BRF?

Actually, I think the tabloids were too soft on MM. Anybody remember the Sussexes' official visit to Morocco in February of last year? The tabs wrote about how eye-wateringly expensive her clothes were (the Dior caftan, for instance, which reportedly cost $10,000) yet somehow they missed the fact that she committed several breaches of protocol and insulted the host country. The constant PDA's offended, since Morocco is a Muslim country and PDA's are frowned on. Even worse, at receptions she repeatedly barged ahead of Harry and stuck her hand out for a handshake. I find it impossible to believe that nobody told her that royal protocol dictated that Harry go first and that women are not supposed to barge ahead of their husbands and shake hands in Morocco, so I can only conclude that she knew exactly what was expected of her and decided to give the BRF, Morocco and the UK a giant finger.
Sylvia said…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1265174/Prince-harry-warning-California-Meghan-Markle-royal-latest
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said…
Whoa, thank you for that link @Sylvia!.

The kindest comment of it all is re Rach:

She’s a competent actress...
Fairy Crocodile said…
@Barbara from Montreal

In my humble opinion Harkles have already pressed the nuclear button - separation from the RF. Compared with that everything they do will be mundane and trivial as a flea.

Japanese commercial? OK, stop their security, they have money
Big role? OK, stop their security, they have money
Another lecture to big bankers? Ok, stop their security they have money
Travalyst? Stillborn
A new foundation? Big yawn.
A new picture of Archie? How cute, never mind, next.
Return to UK? Scroungers, leeches, failures. F off. Charles drinks sedatives, Wills pulls up his sleeves, Kate has a hat pin ready.
Court case with MoS? Go, Mail, kick her sorry a***! Pictures, put her on a witness stand, roast her! How entertaining for a day or two. Done, dusted.

There is only one big piece of news left for them. Divorce and money battle
Henrietta said…
Barbara from Montreal: "...(the Dior caftan, for instance, which reportedly cost $10,000)..."

You're missing a zero!
Henrietta said…
Elle, "...because I assume that's why we're all here - not to pontificate, but to think and exchange ideas..."

Really agree, Elle, and I'm glad you're back. I was watching how you were reacting to CatEyes to decide what I was going to do. I've never participated in a discussion where my ideas were described as "nauseous."
Fairy Crocodile said…
@Elle

Dan Wooton has used his wit and scathing sense of humor more than once speaking of the Harkles.

Her biggest ever mistake was accusing everybody, all media of unfair coverage, while opposite is true. There are very good journos, and they will not let her get away with it, n'est pa?
lucy said…
@elle I owe you an apology. I am sorry for my snotty comment. I just had the whole not again frustration kick in. I don't post alot but do read and appreciate your comments. I am genuinely glad to read you back in the mix :)

going forward I too will not engage such behavior as it was made abundantly clear I have an unfortunate mental illness with 3 or 4 distinct personalities that causes me to go off the rails..I hope I get my medication adjusted ;)

again I apologize and wish you and all great health and mental wellness

thanks for article @sylvia twas a good one😜
Anonymous said…
Oh, LOL @ Henrietta! I didn't see the "nauseous" part lol. IDGI, but that's particularly eye-rolling lol. It's just so disruptive for the other Nuttiers. I apologize, but other than be silenced totally, there's nothing I can do about it.

@Fairy Crocodile, certainement!



Is it weird that I'm American and glued to BBC to hear the Queen real time?
Nutty Flavor said…
Thank you for your tolerance, @Elle.
Anonymous said…
@Lucy, no worries! I didn't see your "snotty" comment, so it's fine. I checked out for awhile for the aforementioned reasons. I understand that it is frustrating to all, and I'm sorry. I really was just trying to be normal, hoping it had faded. So whatever you said, I didn't see it, and I accept your apology. No harm, no foul.

Well, now how will Rach play HMTQ's speech? Is wearing green "reaching out"? How many stories from this?

I personally thought the speech was wonderful, but I'm an easy sell. I also thought HMTQ looked impeccable, and her calming soft green with blue and the cream of the pearls perfectly lovely.
Anonymous said…
No worries, Nutty. It's important to put it into perspective. The world is spinning down the abyss in so many ways, this is the least of it. I did delete my comment, too, since I know you've seen it. Thank you :)
Nutty Flavor said…
@Uhura and @AbbyH, I must admit I do not know the cost of a DM article. My guess is $5000-$10,000, with the difference being timing and placement, but that’s only a guess.
lucy said…
aww I missed speech and am now scrambling for replay. watching live reaction and it seems I missed incredibly heartfelt, personal message

I missed it typing to you Elle, jerk! I am so kidding. thank you for accepting my apology :)
Anonymous said…
LOL @Lucy I'm powerful in my nefarious jerkiness lol. BBC has it now and the comments following also interesting. Dickie Arbiter assuring us re Philip, too.
Sandie said…
https://www.crazydaysandnights.net/2020/04/blind-items-revealed-2_5.html

And here it comes up again!

I think Meghan would have been attracted to Scientology for two reasons:
1. A lot of Hollywood A-listers were connected and Meghan has always had a tendency to join clubs that could connect her to the 'right people'.
2. She would have been attracted by the spiel of being completely in control of your destiny and getting everything you want.

BUT, no way would Meghan have been able to do auditing because she is not honest. I also cannot see Meghan paying out the huge fees to 'climb the ladder' in Scientology. Meghan gets where she wants to be through freebies. I suspect her father paid for a couple of classes or she somehow got money from him to do so and then when he found out what she was doing, he put a stop to it.

Does anyone know anything about Scientology, or enough to speculate which classes she took and how it influenced her behaviour? (She would have aced the ghosting lessons!)
Fairy Crocodile said…
Well my respect to the Queen has faded somewhat as result of Hrkle Debacle but it was a good speech. Pushed all the right buttons.

It made it even more pronounced that all royals stand with their nation and Harry doesn't.

Duke of Malibu.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…

Nutty Flavor said…
@Uhura and @AbbyH, I must admit I do not know the cost of a DM article. My guess is $5000-$10,000, with the difference being timing and placement, but that’s only a guess.
________________________________

I'm afraid I don't know either, but judging by "clicks" alone, Markle articles seem to garner quite a few. Whether or how this translates into dollars/pounds/etc., is a matter of conjecture.
Sandie said…
https://youtu.be/bP_hNq6-0S8

For anyone who has not seen it, this is the Queen's televised address.
lucy said…
wow HM looked absolutely fantastic and I thoroughly enjoyed her words. I actually teared up. She has such a commanding presence. my heart aches for all the bs she has had to endure, yes her action or inaction has been contributory but what a struggle to balance your family and nation. God Bless The Queen
Crumpet said…
Hello Nutties,

Great speech by HM. No books, no family photos, no knicknacks to distract from the fact that the UK, its people--doctors, military, volunteers, etc. are the important ones to thank at this time. Even the Queen who could command all the attention, can deflect to those making the sacrifices. Unlike MM, who can't move past being the center of attention for any cause.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Oh, good grief. I've only just now been reading through past comments.

No one is pointing a gun at readers/posters here to force them to visit.

If one doesn't like it here, don't visit. Simple as that.

I, for one, appreciate Nutty Flavor's even-handed approach to those who try her patience to the utmost with their emotionalism. (Including my own.) It is up to us to repay her patience with respect for one another and points of view. I won't take sides in any of these back and forths.

This blog is a beacon of civility in an Internet of chaos. It is very important to me, and to us all.

GROW UP.
Sylvia said…
@Fairy Crocodile
'Duke of Malibu' 🤣
lucy said…
as a side note I was surprised to see not one mask on any of the workers during Queen's speech

also too, the brooch HM was wearing. I recall in previous posts many discussing many have significant meaning. any history on today's selection?
Sylvia said…
@Sandi thanks for the you tube link 're MQ speech
Nutty Flavor said…
Thanks @Uhura.

I enjoyed the Queen’s speech. I thought it was well written and well delivered.

The footage showed British citizens of all backgrounds working together to support each other and save lives.

The Queen also referred to “people of all faiths, and none”.

Meg can’t teach her anything about diversity.
Anonymous said…

Shortening my previous comment :
Also, thanks! @Brown-eyes, PortCityGirl, Queen Whitby...

My comment to Nutty on the last thread wasn't to say that I was leaving, just that I felt like the only way to stop this was to leave.

So, thank you.



And @Genia, speaking of learning, thank you for that Japanese v. Chinese insight!
Sylvia said…
@Lucy Skippy blog tumblr has lots of information on Royal jewelry and their symbols .
If I see any reference to the brooch HMQ wore during her speech tonight I shall let you know
Anonymous said…
@Lucy here's a link re the brooch:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/style/1265335/queen-elizabeth-address-turquoise-brooch-pictures

I thought it was chosen b/c of the calm tones of green and blue, but I'm sure there's more significance.
Unknown said…
@Lt

A poster complained about your comment on this matter the other night (it was a different 'Unknown' and they said so, even added an lol). Try to understand what Terms of Service means and I bet you didn't even read it. Nutty is not allowing Cat Eyes freedom of speech as is required and she is allowing bullying, hardly actions of an even-handed approach'.

She has not even the semblance of patience, as shown by her immediate censorship of deleting Cat Eyes post of the Terms of Service (which binds us to Goggle's rules) and her other responsive posts. In all of this there hasn't been one example of what Cat Eyes said that was insulting like Tatty nor did she keep bringing this situation up, this has been you, Elle, and others who keep it going. maybe you should get a level of maturity to analyze the facts (Terms of Service) and be fair.

Far for me to care if you are one of the bully mob or just an idle trouble-maker casting aspersions on a good lady which is what Cat Eyes is. She has provided much humor here when you have mostly thrown out strident screams about the HAMS with little substance from what I've read. You remarks are set at loud, condemning accusations of the couple without much in the way of thought-out-analysis (maybe that's all you can do). As Miss Scarlett says 'Bless Your Heart'.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
"We'll meet again, don't know where, don't know when,
But I know we'll meet again some sunny day."

I love the Queen, and I honor her long service to her country. Being a bit emotional here, I admit. I lost my Father to the Korean War. Not today, but the Queen's speech brought a few things back.

Can't we please agree to agree today about something, anything.



QueenWhitby said…
The Dook and Duchess of Do-nothing announce they are “taking time off” for the next few months the day our Queen makes the speech of a lifetime during the worst crisis her country has seen since WWII.

Imagine, mooching in Malibu, bleating about philanthropic yearnings, while doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING humanitarian for the people of the country that pay for your existence. People in Britain, and worldwide are facing the struggle of their lifetime, yet these two faux humanitarians are taking a few months off to lounge by the pool and re-invent themselves. The “optics” are incredibly bad.

“We will succeed and that success will belong to every one of us”......all except Prince Harry.

Mischief Girl said…
@Fairy Crocodile
"Duke of Malibu"
HILARIOUS!!!! "Just Harry, Duke of Malibu"

My husband and I just watched the Queen's message. I had to clear the plates because I was getting emotional and didn't want him to see.

She had just the right tone.

I'm very surprised $mirkle didn't try to upstage it somehow.
Fairy Crocodile said…
People in US, how soon a person without the green card on a visitor allowance will be booted out?

I have a bad feeling Hawwy will be crawling back after his "break from the previous breaks".
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Nutty Flavor said...
Thanks @Uhura.

I enjoyed the Queen’s speech. I thought it was well written and well delivered.

The footage showed British citizens of all backgrounds working together to support each other and save lives.

The Queen also referred to “people of all faiths, and none”.

Meg can’t teach her anything about diversity.
___________________________________________

No, indeed.

Thanks, Nutty F. On a night where I am alone and frightened, you are a touchstone.

Hope you are the same to others like me. Somehow, I think so.

_______________________________________________

Okay, I have words for all you stupid idiots who insist on acting like children who never grew up.

LEAVE NUTTY FLAVOR ALONE.

Thatisall.

Portcitygirl said…
Sadie

Thank you for link for HM's speech. It brought tears to my eyes.

May we all follow her great and steady example. God save the Queen. It feels like she is Queen of the world in these dark days.
Portcitygirl said…
Sandie - I hate auto-
MustySyphone said…
@Elle

Count me as one of those who is very glad you're back!

Sandie said…
I was scrolling through a blog that had clips of the engagement interview, focusing on their hands (battle for control there!). I noticed something that I had noticed before: the ring did not fit her. It was VERY loose. In fact, she had to keep adjusting it as it would slide around with the diamonds then on the palm-side of her hand. They were living together, she loves to wear lots of baubles so he could have had a collection of rings from which to get the right size (this is assuming that he kept it a secret from her). Why was the ring so loose?

Another odd thing I came across is photographs of Meghan leaving a beauty parlour, leaning against a wall outside to make a call, and then hailing a cab. This was a couple of days before the weekend that Pippa Middleton got married (May 2017, which was a year after Meghan and Harry met and about 6 after she successfully outed their relationship, after numerous attempts to do so with not-so-subtly hints, if my timeline is correct). Why did Meghan, who must still have been working on Suits, hotfoot it over to the UK for a few days for a wedding that she was not invited to? Why did she have to hail a cab? If she was staying with Harry could he not have arranged a car to drop her off and fetch her from the beauty salon?

https://skippyv20.tumblr.com/post/614576434076336128/what-fun
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Elle, Reine des Abeilles said...
@Lt. Nyota U. love the Queen, and I honor her long service to her country. Being a bit emotional here, I admit. I lost my Father to the Korean War. Not today, but the Queen's speech brought a few things back.

_______________________________________

Thank you, Reine.

I miss him every single day. You are kind to give me a thank-you.
Sandie said…
@Lt. Nyota Uhura:

I also choked up when I watched the Queen's address.

She is from the era of WWII so she is probably the only senior royal who could have made such an address with such meaning.
Anonymous said…
And lolololol, how did I miss the Duke of Malibu!? That's perfect, @Fairy Crocodile! From Harry FKAP to the Duke of Malibu. And to borrow from Elf, he sits on a throne of lies and probably smells like beef and cheese. If I were giving out the latte awards around here, you'd be today's winner. Instead, I will raise a glass of chardonnay to you later (or maybe a hot cocoa with rum... or maybe both? TBD lol).

I hope they read here before launching their new brand ;) Duke and Duchess of Malibu might inspire them. I'm actually waiting to see if they're both reflected in that brand. Would the Duchess want to rebrand a third time after the divorce? I'd think not, so I expect a name that works single or double, as Sussex Royal did. Of course, they couldn't have gone with Sussexes Royal anyway (I credit Prince Philip for that lol).
She will, Mischief Girl, she will.

Take heart from HM's dress & brooch:

Turquoise. colour and brooch with a perfect turquoise stone - a semi-precious mineral, but this one looked flawless, which is very rare and worthy of the diamonds.

I looked for its meaning:
"Featured snippet from the web

"People also ask
What does turquoise mean spiritually?
Color Meaning: Meaning of The Color Turquoise
The color turquoise is associated with meanings of refreshing, feminine, calming, sophisticated, energy, wisdom, serenity, wholeness, creativity, emotional balance, good luck, spiritual grounding, friendship, love, joy, tranquility, patience, intuition, and loyalty.20 Nov 2010


Meaning of The Color Turquoise | - Bourn Creative
www.bourncreative.com › meaning-of-the-color-turquoise

Search for: What does turquoise mean spiritually?
What are the benefits of wearing turquoise?
It is considered to be a peace and harmonizing stone that decreases nervousness, tension, and stress. The gem is also reputed to promote empathy, sensitivity, and positive thinking. Turquoise is believed to bring calmness and serenity in life. It is also believed to protect from negative energy and bad omens."

As somone said a little while ago, HM sends messages with her clothes. In this case, what more could one want?
CatEyes said…
@Lt. Uhura

IF ELLE WOULD HAVE LEFT ME ALONE AND NUTTY FOLLOWED THE LAW, we wouldn't be talking about this. NUTTY STARTEd IT BY 'ILLEGALLY BANNING ME; Lt Urhura; YOU AND ALL THE SIMPLETONS WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND GOOGLE LAW, LEAVE ME ALONE!!

Well you lost your father, I'm sorry but I lost my Father a multi-decorated Hero, an Army Medic Parachutist, dropping in the front lines saving lives without a rifle during the great Gen. MacArthur's campaign thru the South Pacific in WWII. He fought for my right to have freedom of speech (and yours) and this country to be free so such a co. like Google can exist and you can have post against me. My Uncle was in the Korean conflict but he did his job and came back and became a doctor (so did my dad) saving lives.

I stand up for justice and the law because it is in my genetics. Oh like Elle, I apologize that I have to say this but I was baited.
Anonymous said…
@Lt. You're welcome. This makes me choke up, too

I miss him every single day. You are kind to give me a thank-you.


I know what omnipresent loss and grief feel like too well, and so without getting too OT, I will just share this:

IMO, that part about time healing all wounds is wrong. Time just dulls the pain, but the loss never goes away, and we miss them even more because it's been so long, and then something comes along, and wham, back there again in the sharp pain. So, I'm not a big hugger, but virtual hug across the universe to you today on that.
Anonymous said…
@ Elle. You were missed but I certainly understand how you feel. We cannot believe anything that comes out of the mountains of PR merde shoveled in our direction. Markle is firmly in the camp of any attention is good attention. Except if it makes you look like a narcissistic looney tune. And I think all of this hinges on how far she will go and the BRF finally having enough.

They are continually firing polite shots over the bow, warning her to knock it off, but she’s desperate at this point. At some point they will lift the super injunctions against the press and ask her filthy laundry will be aired, the most powerful one being her alleged pregnancy, which will finally grind her into the dust. Once she’s exposed, nothing she says will be taken seriously ever again. And NO ONE will hire her. People don’t like being duped. And given her current popularity numbers, she doesn’t have any wiggle room. One massive reveal and she will be labeled a liar, and no amount of articles on her messy bun being a statement of sophisticated sloppiness will matter one iota.

I think the BRF were hoping that the DM court case would do a lot of their dirty work for them, but I don’t think it’s “big” enough. And it needs to be something that won’t damage Harry more than he’s already damaged in the public’s eye. Which is problematic for them.

Of course, she didn’t anticipate this, thinking that Archie was her trump card, except it isn’t. It’s now her biggest liability IMO. But until the BRF decides it’s time to lower the boom, it will be months of the kind of speculation we’ve seen over the last two weeks. And they will not lower the boom until the virus has run its course. Over 5000 deaths in the U.K. So far. They are not publicity whores and would not create those types of headlines when people are dying all over the U.K.

So she can spin her endless nonsense. I’m like, yawn. It’s all along the lines of how fabulous she is and it’s nothing but rinse and repeat. The day I really begin to pay attention again is when the BRF decides enough is enough. This, IMO, is why she’s desperate to get a hold of the narrative when there isn’t, currently any opportunity for her to create a narrative as a foil against when the BRF will disclose her shenanigans, even if in a bid to get Harry back and out of her clutches. Literally. Markle should be nicer to Harry. If he walks out, it will be her day of reckoning.
Henrietta said…
Fairy Crocodile said:

"People in US, how soon a person without the green card on a visitor allowance will be booted out?"

The consensus is 90 days; it's a reciprocal agreement. But he can't work without a green card, which I didn't know. (I think once you apply, you get some kind of provisional permit.)

On the DM article saying PH probably WON'T apply for a green card, a lot of commenters are suggesting there's already trouble in paradise. Not one or two commenters, but a lot of them.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
CatEyes said...
@Lt. Uhura

IF ELLE WOULD HAVE LEFT ME ALONE AND NUTTY FOLLOWED THE LAW, we wouldn't be talking about this. NUTTY STARTEd IT BY 'ILLEGALLY BANNING ME; Lt Urhura; YOU AND ALL THE SIMPLETONS WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND GOOGLE LAW, LEAVE ME ALONE!!

Well you lost your father, I'm sorry but I lost my Father a multi-decorated Hero, an Army Medic Parachutist, dropping in the front lines saving lives without a rifle during the great Gen. MacArthur's campaign thru the South Pacific in WWII. He fought for my right to have freedom of speech (and yours) and this country to be free so such a co. like Google can exist and you can have post against me. My Uncle was in the Korean conflict but he did his job and came back and became a doctor (so did my dad) saving lives.

I stand up for justice and the law because it is in my genetics. Oh like Elle, I apologize that I have to say this but I was baited.
__________________________________________________

I know. Believe me, I know.

I spent many useless years trying to figure out how my Dad would have made life better for us.

He will always be a hero to me. He went and fought when his country called him, and he lost his life.

It is up to us to keep his life going. At least, that is how I see it. He wanted us to strive, strive and strive for the best life possible. Not being "given" it, but "getting" it. Does that make sense?


Sylvia said…
@Lucy https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/story-behind-diamond-turquoise-brooch-21817802
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Elle, Reine des Abeilles said...
@Lt. You're welcome. This makes me choke up, too

I miss him every single day. You are kind to give me a thank-you.

I know what omnipresent loss and grief feel like too well, and so without getting too OT, I will just share this:

IMO, that part about time healing all wounds is wrong. Time just dulls the pain, but the loss never goes away, and we miss them even more because it's been so long, and then something comes along, and wham, back there again in the sharp pain. So, I'm not a big hugger, but virtual hug across the universe to you today on that.

---------------------------------------------
Thanks, Reine :)

I am a Christian, so I know that my Redeemer Liveth :) -- my Dad knew it as well, so I am not afraid to "go". You won't go either, because you gave me goodness on a day when I really needed it.

See you on the other side :)

lucy said…
@sylvia thanks for keeping an eye out. I used to visit there but haven't much lately, it is a zoo

@elle thanks for the link!

dare I say this is first time Meg has shown any restraint . thought for sure we would get a "never before seen" pic of Archie or pic of something she did 8 years ago

I wonder how Harry feels after watching his grandmother's speech.
CatEyes said…
@Lt, Uhura

Yes I agree with you because my father stressed being the best you could be and I owe my good ethics to him. He came from very poor circumstances (picked cotton at age 8).

The world would be a better place if we all strived to be our best. Maybe this CV-19 is bringing that out in some people, well unfortunately for many, it is not. This is a war not of armed conflict but of biology and how we respond determines if we are 'good and loyal' soldiers to our fellow man. I believe this crisis will bring about change in our society, and I pray it will be the lasting good kind.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
lucy said...


I wonder how Harry feels after watching his grandmother's speech.
__________________________________

I hope he feels like a World Class Heel. Sorry, but I hate him. Yes, hate.

I try to be a good human, but I fall well short.

Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
CatEyes said...
@Lt, Uhura

I believe this crisis will bring about change in our society, and I pray it will be the lasting good kind.

___________________

I pray you are right.
Marie said…
Can someone explain why Meghan would have hired Sunshine Sachs to market the Vogue editorial? To me, doing the magazine was already a PR fluff exercise. The ridiculousness of hiring an official PR firm on top of that sounds almost like money laundering of the Sovereign Grant/ Duchy of Cornwall funds, or certainly a "I'll rub your back, you rub mine" sort of thing for their future launch in L.A.
Fairy Crocodile said…
@Henrietta

Thank you! Harry can afford good lawyers but fundamentally law is the same for all. He has to have paperwork in place to be able to stay in USA>

And something tells me that if he broke regulations - like simply using his defunct diplomatic passport to get in - authorities will not be overly benevolent.
lucy said…
@ltUhura agreed! I am not overly vindictive but I was so incredibly touched, if he has any sort of soul left it has got to feel crushed

I feel like I should say by lol. thanks for great insightful day everyone. dinner time!
Anonymous said…
@Wizard W. & Musty S.

<3 (it's supposed to be a heart)


Wizard, excellent comment,and adding my thoughts:

Markle is firmly in the camp of any attention is good attention. Except if it makes you look like a narcissistic looney tune. And I think all of this hinges on how far she will go and the BRF finally having enough.

YES!! THIS! Any attention is good attention because the spotlight must always remain on her, but I rarely see a positive comment about her now, so I do think she's headed to even more desperate behavior. I've never been to CB or DList, but I know that the woke comments on my Twitter feed have disappeared. I think she will escalate, which brings us to this...


They are continually firing polite shots over the bow, warning her to knock it off, but she’s desperate at this point. At some point they will lift the super injunctions against the press... Once she’s exposed, nothing she says will be taken seriously ever again. And NO ONE will hire her. People don’t like being duped...

Agree totally. Polite shots over the bow don't work with a narcissist. They'll smile for a bit, then wait to pounce asap. We've seen that repeatedly with her. And, like all narcs, she plays the pity card when caught/cornered and/or lashes out nastily. Normal people do not play the pity card; normal people don't want our pity. Normal people may ask for help, but even then, it's not easy. Pity cards are played to manipulate, and I fully expect Rach to throw down a hand of them soon enough. But as you say, at some point, those super injunctions are lifted, and the Devil will take the hindmost. And my guess it will be a bloody ample one lol.


...it needs to be something that won’t damage Harry more than he’s already damaged in the public’s eye. Which is problematic for them.

YEP.


And they will not lower the boom until the virus has run its course. Over 5000 deaths in the U.K. So far. They are not publicity whores and would not create those types of headlines when people are dying all over the U.K.

Agree completely. It is one reason the "we tried, we really tried" was their best option, too. The BRF does not run screaming from the palace shouting about The American like it's Jerry Springer time. They did not survive hundreds of years by being drama queens. Rach, OTOH, has no sense of decency. She must disrupt and hurt others to force the attention. Imagine needing to be the spotlight during this global devastation? But eventually, this will pass, and yes, till then...


Markle should be nicer to Harry. If he walks out, it will be her day of reckoning.

When the Duchess of Malibu becomes the Duchess of Mooch forever after. I wonder if she could move back in with Doria or Thomas lol.
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lindy said…
Actually I don’t think those DM articles are posting via MM’s PR. They are all meant as digs:
—Prince Harry helped with her pronunciation (i.e. she’s a dunce)
— She’s not seen Doria since returning to Los Angeles (i.e ditching family)
— Meg will "only work with A-list directors, like Ava Duvernay" (a statement certainly set to annoy Hollywood; in fact it emphasized the “cheesy” roles she’s being offered)
—Taking a few months off before launching new brand because they need a break (stated as they want more column inches)
Anonymous said…
@Lindy excellent points. I think it might be a third front after reading your list.
Lindy said…
I also do not think they are paying the daily mail. They are suing Mail on Sunday. If it came out that they’re paying the same organization they’re suing, it would destroy them. Case thrown out; countersued, blah blah, having to pay defense legal fees. I simply do not see any articles getting in to the daily mail thorough PR payments.
Lindy said…
@elle, what do you mean by third front?
Sandie said…
@Marie:
Can someone explain why Meghan would have hired Sunshine Sachs to market the Vogue editorial?

The only reason I can think of was to make sure it was the best-selling edition of all time to 'increase the value of Meghan'. It was focused on the USA market (she had already decided to ditch the UK and head back to the USA).

Meghan thinks in terms of number of followers and likes (so, number of copies sold was her goal ... not considering that 10% more copies sold than any other best-selling edition at a hugely discounted price is not a business success). Months after the Vogue issue, she released that video that was all about establishing that issue as the most successful in Vogue history (number of issues, not money made and not considering the volume of what had to be given away). The BRF and her staff at the time would never have approved the release of that video but it is a clear indication of who Meghan is and what is important to her and how she respects no one.
Marie said…
Elle, I agree quite a bit with your statement. Even though I don't believe Meghan to be a narcissist, I do believe she is terribly self-centered and ambitious in a way that allows her to say or be anything to get what she wants : "Polite shots over the bow don't work with a narcissist. They'll smile for a bit, then wait to pounce asap. We've seen that repeatedly with her. And, like all narcs, she plays the pity card when caught/cornered and/or lashes out nastily. Normal people do not play the pity card; normal people don't want our pity. Normal people may ask for help, but even then, it's not easy. Pity cards are played to manipulate, and I fully expect Rach to throw down a hand of them soon enough. "

It is amazing how she insists she's an independent, intelligent woman who can stand on her own, but then pulls out pity cards or lashes out with lawsuits and legal technicalities when she is criticised for inappropriate behaviour. Some people play this manipulative game without probably even realising it, Harry for example, as it simply works so well. Most people want to be helpful and kind. It does indeed concern me that they will build their empire in L.A. successfully, despite having abused taxpayer funds. Again, I'm beginning to wonder if the Sunshine Sachs projects (Vogue, Travalyst) were more of a prepayment with Pa's funding for the actual groundwork for their L.A. plans, as Travalyst barely seems to have been launched beyond a mention on their Instagram account and maybe a DM article, and I can scarcely being to imagine how they helped market the Vogue Editorial.
Anonymous said…
@Lindy third front from my comment above:

... But could there be a third front?

I remember that some of us thought the "they'll make millions! billions! They'll be fabulous globally!" might have come from the BRF and not the Dumbartons. Ditto with some of the comments about who was advising her....
Could this "A List" piece be part of that?
I know nothing about PR and would love to hear Nutty's thoughts and those of other Nuttiers in the know re how much this costs and how these stories can be placed.
Marie said…
@Sandie, I did not know that she had bragged about that! Anyone can slash the price low enough to sell something. It is truly despicable how often and how brazenly public funds were used for her self-promotion and glory, what with NHS cuts and general austerity. She wants to be a philanthropist but has no money of her own to use. It sounds old-fashioned to say this, as my parents bemoaned my generation, and their parents theirs, but it does seem society has become more concerned with appearances since the social media sites popped up. The internet allows celebrities to create and control their personas because it is much easier to act like something part of the time with online strangers and "followers", than try keep up appearances all the time with friends and family.
punkinseed said…
Glad you're back Elle. Spot on Henrietta!
I grew up with a lot of Japanese friends and neighbors and know some of their ways, so here's my take on why Harkles would flop in Japan:
Manners! Japanese are very big on manners. Even the tiniest thing Megs does or says would put them off but the Japanese way of handling such a situation would be to pretend they didn't notice out of being polite, then subtly back away from her and never look back.
By tiniest things, I mean like yawning without covering your mouth. It really grosses them out and is a huge no no. So when Megs pokes out her tongue like she does... ya.
Her blatant acts of disrespect of others, especially her father, the queen and all elders is another no no. Huge.
Interrupting others and making every topic always all about herself makes her unmarketable for Japan too. There's more, but the above are all deal breakers.
Anonymous said…
@Marie

independent, intelligent woman who can stand on her own

LOL, as if. This is what's known as delusional thinking, and Rach is so deep in that, so it's why she must lash out. Her life and behavior don't match her delusion, so whenever a mirror is held up, she reaches out to break it. It's like when I wear pants that I know make me look fat (because I'm a bit chubby right now lol), and then I avoid mirrors so I don't have to see the three boxes of chocolate mint cookie spread across the midsection, down the thighs, and across the rear. It's all there, but I do not want to see it evah. Same with Rach.

Rach had dreams of world fame and a life of lux when she was very young. I think that the truth is she was moderately attractive and helped along with a lot of plastic surgery, so she's pretty enough, but by LA standards? Yeah, no. There's a reason she was on the back row behind far taller, thinner and more beautiful suitcase girls. And it's why standing next to Kate outrages her. She doesn't hate Kate for Kate. She hates the mirror that Kate provides. When Rach stands next to Kate, she is no longer the most beautiful hot girl with legs a mile long. She's the square and dumpy one. That feels terrible, but because she's not healthy emotionally, she can't deal. Reese Witherspoon wrote about this, and I really got it (she was writing about accepting herself).

Also, Rach has no talent as an actor, but could not deal with that either, so she became the suitcase girl, hustled, and climbed that greasy pole any way she could. That meant marrying Trevity-trev-trev. Then, when he couldn't get it for her and she was on a cable TV show, she jumped to the next greasy pole (the chef, Cory?) And when she was about to be an unemployed z-lister on a cable TV show, and Cory wasn't working it for her even though she'd hijacked his zucchini recipe, she found Mr. Dumbarton.

I have read the list of narcissistic behaviors, and recently, heard about "narcissistic collapse", and that all seems to fit, but IDK and am not a psychologist, so I have to ask why you don't think she is a narc. I'm not arguing, just trying to see this from a different PoV, so I hope you'll share :)
Anonymous said…
Hey, @Punkinseed! thx and interesting... especially about the tongue! I found that really offensive, too, and I'm not Japanese, but this is really important info to have because I do find myself in different groups in the PNW!
Sylvia said…
@Lindy
The Mail on Sunday is a British conservative newspaper, published in a tabloid format. It was launched in 1982 by Lord Rothermere. ... Like the Daily Mail it is owned by the Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT), but the editorial staffs of the two papers are entirely separate
xxxxx said…
Elle, Reine des Abeilles said...

I don't have much to add except to say I'd never thought of the PR addiction this way before reading Nutty's post, but yes, it's like Rach is a PR Hoarder and the virtual boxes are stacked to the ceiling. It doesn't matter what's in them or if she already has a box filled with the same thing. It doesn't need to be relevant, useful, timely, or truthful. It just needs to be more, more, more.

To add to yours..... Megsy has her PF flacks put out contradictory stories. About 40% are contradictory and Megsy doesn't care. This might be intentional or unintentional. For me this is intentional as in, "Just keep throwing random stuff up there to keep me in the public consciousness. Random stuff that I think will resonate. That will strike a vibe in my sugars"
iow -- What is put out in Insta, DM, The Sun, People Magazine is all about eliciting tingles in her dim fan base

For Elle and Hikari >>>
But the cat came back, the very next day
The cat came back, they thought he was a goner
But the cat came back, just wouldn't stay away
(an old folk song)
Elle wrote "IMO, that part about time healing all wounds is wrong. Time just dulls the pain, but the loss never goes away, and we miss them even more because it's been so long, and then something comes along, and wham, back there again in the sharp pain."

You have described grief to a T. Two days ago, I went to Facebook and there was a "memory" video from five years ago featuring my husband and my dog. I still haven't been able to quell the pain and stupidly still think he is going to walk through the door and give me a hug.

On a more positive note, as it shows how the tides are turning, my friend, who used to think I had a problem over Meg since I saw through her, just tweeted Harry and her to "shut up"when they tweeted parts of the Queen's message right as she started speaking. She also told them they were hypocrites and should just stick to yoga. The world is recognizing her for what she is. Him too.
xxxxx said…
Lindy said...
I also do not think they (H/M) are paying the daily mail.

Pimp Mama Kris is paying off the Daily Mail. She has to be for all the daily placements this clan gets. They are the KarTrashians, but they filled a niche, are earning their millions, I have to respect this.
While H&M are leeches, clamped onto the tenants of the Duchy of Cornwall.
Anonymous said…
Thanks, @LightHealer lol because I needed to cry again today. I'm sorry you have experienced that, but I'm glad we shared our experience.

And @xxxxx lol on the cat song. I googled the lyrics, and yes, whatever sticks, you're probably right. Sigh.
Anonymous said…
Need a break from WHAT? These two morons are the laziest, most work-shy people I've ever seen! They've done nothing! A few events here and there to press the flesh and give Me-Again an excuse to talk about herself. That's it. They've never done any actual work.

The only good thing about the worldwide COVID-19 crisis is that it completely put a stop to any of her money-making schemes, at least for the time being. No one is making movies or TV shows, no one is holding big conferences she can make a spectacle of herself at, and no one is "taking meetings" right now.
@BarbaraFromMontreal: oh, I've heard the clown car horror stories about Celebitchy. No thank you! Thank U, next! ;-)

HM The Queen's speech today was EPIC. Absolutely magnificent, exactly like her own bad self. God save the Queen.
Animal Lover said…
Saw the Queen's excellent speech. I teared up at when she said We will meet again.

Such a contrast to the whining of her grandson's wife. The focus was ALL on the efforts and service of others, not once did the Queen say not many people asked if I was okay.
SwampWoman said…
I watched The Queen's speech (there is only one) and found it to be incredibly moving yet simultaneously comforting, like a warm and loving hug from one's grandmother when one is sad and dispirited and suffered a loss while being told "Yes, it looks bad right now, but everything will work out and life goes on, you will see!" Such a national treasure for y'all.
Portcitygirl said…
https://www.ccn.com/meghan-markle-the-ruthless-social-climber-who-married-a-prince/

This was a great read.
Eowyn said…
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1265174/Prince-harry-warning-California-Meghan-Markle-royal-latest

Excerpt:

It appears that Harry and Meghan are cut loose from Britain without a proper plan, and with no clear idea how they were to finance their future life.

Security – estimated at £4million a year – would be down to him.

There’s been much talk of buying a house in uber-smart Malibu. Properties start with a £20million price tag, and Harry doesn’t have that kind of money....

It would come as no surprise to find that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex Foundation, which shut up shop last week, won’t be rekindled in the US.

Running a charity costs money and there’s no evidence Harry will ever work again to fund it.

Meghan is a big name in Los Angeles, but unless she gets bigger jobs than the voiceover she’s just done for a Disney documentary, her prospects are bleak.

She’s a competent actress but her attraction came from being royal.

And the Sussexes are no longer royal.

And so the jokes begin. This week our one-time hero was being labelled ‘Harry Markle’ while The Times said of the Duchess’s first Hollywood effort: “Meghan lays the cheese on thick in shallow documentary.”

Just before Edward VIII abdicated, he was the nation’s pin-up.

Weeks later the joke was: “He used to be Admiral of the Fleet, now he’s the third mate on an American tramp.”

Ridicule follows hard on your heels when you run away. Let’s hope Harry and Meghan can escape the void their predecessors fell into.
CookieShark said…
@ Sandie, re: Pippa's wedding

It would not surprise me at all if MM made sure she was pictured in order to either "force" a last minute invite from Pippa, or just be defiant, which is her calling card: "Look at me, I'm here." I would believe she made sure she was papped.
KCM1212 said…
@Marie

I too would be interested in your take on the narcissism (or lack of it) in MM. We tend to almost take it as a given here, and a new approach is always useful. I was almost completely unaware of narcissistic disorder (as opposed to narcissistic traits) until I became interested in the Harkle hog-fest so I am still in a pretty steep learning curve. So many nuttiers have shared their experiences with us, something for which I am very grateful.

If this is uncomfortable for you for any reason, please disregard.

One of the things I love about this blog is that all insights are welcomed. Aggression is not.

The Queens speech was lovely, calm, and elegant. I hope the Harkles feel shame for their treatment of her.

And "thanks for checking in" to the MIA nuttiers. You are missed. And "we worry" (said in my grandmother's voice) 😀
lizzie said…
@Portcitygirl posted

https://www.ccn.com/meghan-markle-the-ruthless-social-climber-who-married-a-prince/

It was a great read. Somehow I had missed that Trevor moved his office to NY to be closer to Toronto then M dumped him. Wow.
Just want to say, "Long live the Queen."
I had to work with a CEO's son who was a total narcissist. Worst. Person. In. This. World. He was so petty and childish and angry and self absorbed that he wiped copier ink on an employee's fabric covered chair so it would ruin her clothes and laughed as he did it. That was just a minor transgression.
Anonymous said…
@KCM And "we worry" (said in my grandmother's voice) That gave me a big smile. My grandmother would have added to that "don't you know". It was just a thing she said. Thank you for give me a moment to pause and remember that.
Anonymous said…
@CookieShark I would believe she made sure she was papped.

Pretty sure she did. Check out AnonymousHousePlant on Tumblr.
Anonymous said…
Times two @Marie, I second what @KCM said If this is uncomfortable for you for any reason, please disregard.
KCM1212 said…
@portcitygirl

Excellent article! Thanks for the link.

@Elle
{{{Hugs}}}
Portcitygirl said…
Back at you, Elle!!❤
Leela said…
@Animal Lover about the Queen’s speech today: “The focus was ALL on the efforts and service of others, not once did the Queen say not many people asked if I was okay.”

Boom.Perfect.
@BarbaraFromMontreal: oh, I've heard the clown car horror stories about Celebitchy. No thank you! Thank U, next! ;-)

HM The Queen's speech today was EPIC. Absolutely magnificent, exactly like her own bad self. God save the Queen.
Anonymous said…
I went to Twitter to check out the feed. I'm seeing all positive comments re HMTQ, many of whom you wouldn't expect to be following the BRF or praising it. Seems she won all round. HMTQ FTW today. Lots of us seem to be looking for calm, solid leadership instead of the bombastic bs to which we've been subjected (no "subject" pun intended). I was glad to see that on all sides of the equation.

PortCityGirl how did you get the heart to work? It won't work for me, nor will other emojis. I thought it m/b Mac-related b/c Macs and emojis get wonky on some things.
xxxxx said…
Hopefully Éminence grise Lord Geidt is taking care of the H/M dilemma for The Queen. She needs to save her energy for the very important matters. Such as delivering today for the UK on covid-19. This has Boris in the hospital for tests and observations. Thus your Queenie is extra-double helpful for the national spirit.
Henrietta said…
Cookie Shark said,

"MM has caused chaos from day one. She must be kicking herself as to why she and Harry insisted on leaving the RF, when they simply could have worked less."

This reminded me of something on TCD, but I didn't know if I could find it again. It's under a text box dated Nov. 13, 2018, and it's entitled, "This is royal tea from our MM 'TCD' closed Facebook Group. Pull up a chair and enjoy."

"According to my source, MM & PH had a meeting w/ advisors who told them QE was not happy w/ the shenanigans on their tour. Immediately, MM puckered up into a pout--the actress that she is--and gave them her best "I tried so hard, and being preggers and all I did my best...' With tears streaming down her face."

"The thing is--MM doesn't get she ain't in America anymore. Rumor has it PH didn't buy into her tears and told her to stop. MM thinks she can turn on the waterworks and all will be forgiven. 'She does not understand,' my source said, 'That she may have manipulated PH to get married, but the Queen won't let her run roughshod over the Monarchy.'"

"Later, after the advisors informed MM that she would have little to no engagements in the coming months, she then blamed Melissa saying, 'Mel is against me! She wants me to fail! She's a f*cking spy!!' This outburst supposedly happened right after the advisors left and MM had to blame someone."

"Well, gossip travels quicker than the speed of light in the palace and by the time it got back to Melissa she told PH she was leaving. Now, this can't be confirmed but rumors are PH begged her to stay but she told him: 'For the sake of your grandparents and the United Kingdom--open up your eyes. She's a monster.'"

I think part of MM's problem is that BP stopped giving her any engagements at all.
xxxxx said…
TMZ felt they had to cover The Queen today:

https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/05/queen-elizabeth-coronavirus-address-british-resolute/
WE WILL ENDURE
@royalfamily
Queen Elizabeth II just delivered an official palace address to the UK about the coronavirus pandemic -- her basic message ... hang in there, y'all!!!

We're being flip, but that's the gist of Her Majesty's broadcast speech. QE2 tells the British to maintain their resolve, keep their good humor and spirits about them and that together ... we'll all come out on the other side of this challenging time, across the pond and beyond.

You can watch the full speech above, but what's interesting about it is the historical nature of the Queen delivering remarks like this at all -- it rarely happens outside of Christmas.

Sunday's address marks just the fourth time Liz has spoken to the public in an official speech -- again, besides her annual Christmas talks -- during her 68-year reign as Queen of England. So yeah, it's a big deal she felt the need to talk now. The 'rona got to her!

One other interesting note ... according to Deadline, the Queen's speech here was filmed with just one cameraman in the room with her (fully decked out in protective gear) while the rest of the crew monitored and tinkered from other rooms in the building.

Considering Prince Charles got hit with COVID-19 himself, the precautions probably a good idea around QE2. She's right in that age group where coronavirus can hit hard.
WalkHumbly said…
@Lt Uhuru I’m very sorry about your dad. My dad was in Korea. He came home, but later contracted ALS which was attributed to his army time. A few years ago, a minister from South Korea spoke at a church in Orlando; we happened to be there. He was with a children’s choir from SK. The pastor thanked the good people of the world for sending our treasured ones to save them. He said most were unfamiliar with Korea, but our young men went there willingly. He said without those brave men (I don’t know if women were serving then), the people of South Korea would be living in darkness, like North Korea, and their children would have no future, would never know about the God who loves them. He even gave medals to all the families of soldiers who had fought in Korea, made from wire at the 38th parallel.

I know the sacrifice your dad and your family made. Know that your sacrifice made life possible for many generations to come.

@Lighthealer I am so sorry about your husband. I understand grief, though not of that kind, yet. We are all living in sorrow of one kind or another, and in our suffering, we can show grace and care to one another. There is beauty from ashes. Your personal suffering matters to us and to the world.
Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
@ WalkHumbly --

I thank you from my heart. My Dad and your Dad would and are probably shaking hands.

Both are helping this world!

____________________________________________

Hey, Harry --

THIS is how you live life, you miserable, malcontent.

Now, get rid of your stupid wife and rejoin the rest of us.



Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
Okay, I'm feeling ready to give Meghan what for.

I can't give you what I would like to, which is a punch in the face.

For what you have given the Queen alone, I would count it an honor to smash you in your face.

All the rest is an honor to my name.

Lt. Nyota Uhura said…
https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1246865895399407616
@WalkHumbly I don't know what to say. Bless you. I am wailing into my tea cup at such kind words. Going to print that out. I think that being alone due to self-isolation is amplifying my losses this weekend. I too am sorry for your loss, and Lt. Nyota's, and Elle's and everyone else who has lost a little of their heart, be it through parental loss or the loss of a spouse, child or beloved pet. ( I was walking down the trail near where I live a few weeks ago, thinking of happier times with my dog who passed, and a lady walked by with her dog and handed me a tissue. I told her I was OK, that in a way I felt bad because I felt almost as sad as when my guy passed away, and she said "But my dear, it's not what lifeform they take, it's about the time you spend with them, every day and every night." As we parted, I quickly typed that into a text note on my phone. Had I not seen this beautiful 85-year-old several times since, I would have believed her to be an angel.
Portcitygirl said…
Elle

I can't remember if I was on my tab or phone but I just clicked on the smiley face❤ picked the heart and it popped up. SO said it may be Mac- this was from an android.
Anonymous said…
Ah, I'm using my macbook, not iphone, and Firefox doesn't give me the emoji option. Safari does, but Safari gets wonky with the site, so I'll just have to live in a world sans emojis :)
Fifi LaRue said…
Add in to Meghan's narcissism, psychopathy. A telling trait of a psychpath is that they don't want to work for a living. A psychopath will look for someone to support them. A psychopath might pretend to work, say, getting a part time job at something they "love!" while the partner carries the financial weight. Psychopaths do not have a conscience. Their gift is being able to read other peoples' emotions, and acting on that information. Being able to read others emotions while having none of their own allows a psychpath to manipulate people close to them. The best psychopaths know they don't have a conscience, and try to be good humans. The other ones are all into manipulation. The abruptness in which Meghan dumped her first two husbands is part of the psychopathy. She simply had no feelings. Those men were simply useful to her, and nothing else. Harry is currently useful to Meghan. 1 in 25 people are psychopaths, according to author/expert Robert Hare. Read his book. Lots of insight.

Meghan/Harry will have to be hunkered down like the rest of the world until the virus has passed. The virus will wind down about June 21/22 and be in remission, but will restart for November/December. Beginning 2021 we will be in the clear, but aware something like this is possible again.

Meghan is not feeling like this is a failure. She does not regret leaving the BRF. No. Covid19 has got in her way, just like it got in other peoples' way. But you notice it took her about a month to register that this is a bad time to be lobbying for a job in Hollywood. The Harkles will be on the down low, except for continual PR, until such time it is safe to emerge from isolation. Meghan will give it all of 2021 to use the Prince Harry name as entre' to lucrative projects. 2022 will be the telling time. Harry may get a sudden surprise, completely out of the blue in 2022.
Hikari: "She has effectively Markled herself. Destruction is Meg’s only talent, And she’s so good at it she’s managed to ruin herself, With Harry as collateral damage. Oh, they’ll probably scrounge a few million here and there...People have always flocked to freak shows and willingly bought tickets. But I don’t think Meg realizes, in her self delusion, that people flock to freak shows to jeer, not to admire. And she has got to be one of the biggest American freaks and frauds ever to come down the pike."

You're right, she's a freak. Not only is she a narcissist, but I would also bet anything she's clinically a psychopath. My sister is also, I'm sorry if I keep repeating that, but you never really recover from being close to one. No matter how spoiled and arrogant he may be, it will take Harry years to recover from all this. They just operate so differently than normal people that normal people don't know how to deal with them or what to make of them at all. They have one speed and it's what can they get. The only limited relationship you can have with them, not that anyone should want to, is if you happen to end up in their lane for whatever reason. Meaning doing something they want or talking about something they want to talk about and, of course, if you're doing something for them.

Also, I can't wait wait to see what kind of photoshopped mess she comes up with for Archie's first birthday post. I would imagine they'll have to acknowledge his birthday somehow.
P.s. To Unknown: I didn't refresh before I posted so I didn't see your comment, I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows she's a psychopath.
Anonymous said…
Hi @Glinda! nice to see you here. I'm not sure what Rach is other than the freak and fraud @Hikari describes.

I checked out the virus blog. I've been staying away because it's wandering into controversy at points, and it's just too stressful. I'm to overload point on the whole thing, and what's next is too scary so I can't dwell. I can't even think about it anymore, though I have been tucked inside and scrubbing down per @Swapwoman'sprotocol. I didn't see @JocelynsBellinis posting here or there, so sending out a "hello" and "hope you're well" to my fellow PNWer.
WalkHumbly said…
@Lighthealer I wish I had the turn of phrase that all of you here seem to have! Our pets are sooo important. Losing loved ones, whether human or fur, is a tremendous loss, but the love we share with them is worth the pain. You clearly have much love to give. May it be returned to you many times over.
HappyDays said…
From the DM:
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are 'taking a few months' off before their plans to launch a brand and charity because they 'need a break', a royal expert has claimed.

IVF and/or lining up a surrogate takes time.

Meghan wants a spare child to set her anchor deeper into Harry and her connection to the “family she never had” that she left after less than two years. There will be a pregnancy announcement by autumn. She will really want a girl this time. Girls are much better for merching.
Marie Claire headline on Yahoo this am makes out that HM's comment about it being `painful to be separated from loved ones' was aimed at Our 'Arry.

Puke!

It's not all about Them. It's about Us - the people in the UK, especially those who can't even see/be with their loved ones as they die, health staff who are living on hotels rather than risk infecting their families, people who are stranded abroad and so on. Even those over 70, like HM, who have to be isolated for safety and to reduce the risk of clogging up the NHS.

S*d the Sussexes, say I.
@Elle and all of you lovely Nutties,

I'm here reading along. Everybody has such good insight, that I really haven't felt that I had anything to add to the discussion.

HMTQ's speech was perfect in tone, and it brought tears to my eyes when she said we will see each other again. She truly is the best mix of a powerful world leader and everybody's tender grandmother.

Wishing all of you good health and happiness. I'll check in again soon. Stay safe!

Sylvia said…
Good Morning Nutty and All Nutty blog posters Here's hoping that this week things improve worldwide Thinking of you all.
Could any of you clever wordsmiths rewrite the lyrics to 'California here I come' to suit Megsy this old song seems appropriate to them right now this is one of the verses

'When the wintry winds start blowing
And the snow is starting to fall
Then my eyes turn westward knowing
That's the place that I love best of all

California, I've been blue
Since I've been away from you.
I can't wait till I get going
Even now I'm starting in a call'
This comment has been removed by the author.
I’ve seen the numerous nauseous PR headline/stories in the DM and that’s enough for me, I don’t bother to read them. 😩🙄She and Harry must be so desperate for attention (money too), that they can’t just shut up and get on with their lives. 🙄 The more PR pieces they post the more people can see them for what they are, the comments are scathing.

The Queen’s speech was perfect with its content and tone. 🤗 It was bought forward from Easter Sunday due to the rise in deaths in the UK. 😔
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
Marie said…
@Unknown I disagree that Meghan's unwillingness to work is a sign she's suffering from psychopathy (which, btw is usually avoided and now usually referred to as anti-social personality disorder. I don't actually find that she's that unwilling, given she's been painted as a hustler. Hustlers work quite hard, though sometimes unethically, and her main job is self-promotion. From what I've seen, she's done everything within the law and was never criminal. If anyone in that relationship were unwilling to work, I'd rather call Harry out on that. This particular class of personality disorders doesn't exhibit as wide a range of "normal" emotions. If Meghan is anything, her impulsivity as demonstrated in her Instagram posts railing against the Queen is probably more due to extremely low emotional regulation and unrealistic expectations, perhaps even perfectionism. She seems quite emotional.

Calling her or anyone you've never personally met a psychopath is almost stirring up hate against that person and quite irresponsible. I'd be extremely careful. All these terms people are bandying around overwhelmingly affect more males than females- psychopathy, malignant narcissism vs the other non-agentic kinds of narcissism, which fit more into her modus operandi. As Dr. House says, it's almost never Lupus, and the same thing goes for NPD, psychopathy, sociopathy, and so on.

The reason why such traits of these disorders are so easy to find in people is because people are actually all given a degree of narcissism as a baseline personality trait in Western psychology, as well as . Toddlers could be classified as suffering from sociopathy and NPD, but they're not really. The diagnoses involve more than just identifying the traits and require extensive training in how to identify the context and judge severity. Psychologists and psychiatrists are likely more equipped for the task; mental health counselors and therapists certainly less so.

Manipulation of other people and their emotional responses is something arguably taught as part of socialisation of daughters and women when they come from more traditional, hierarchical families or have more conservative views on power and gender equality. I daresay, calling someone you don't like a psychopath is a manipulative technique to influence others into disliking them as strongly as you do. Having your opinion validated by a large group is a reward that many people seek to feel like they are powerful, intellectual, insightful, and so forth - reward-seeking behaviour without regard to the feelings of others, including Meghan Markle, is a sign of anti-social personality disorder but clearly you are simply angry. Anger is often just anger, as self-centeredness is simply self-centeredness. Both in small doses are fine; in large doses, they're bad enough as is without having to exaggerate with extra, outdated labels.
@Sylvia replied to @Lindy
The Mail on Sunday is a British conservative newspaper, published in a tabloid format. It was launched in 1982 by Lord Rothermere. ... Like the Daily Mail it is owned by the Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT), but the editorial staffs of the two papers are entirely separate.’

I’d add to that, the online version of the DM is different from the printed version, different editors and different team. You don’t see many (near to none) of the PR pieces in the printed version. 🤗

@Lindy, The online DM has numerous paid for PR articles by many so called (z list) celebs, these people aren’t relevant in their own right, because most don’t posses a talent or skill. So without their paid for PR these people wouldn’t exist.
Marie said…
@Elle, I just saw your comment about asking why you think she's not a narc. My first comment of today wasn't in response to you, but to Unknown.

Please allow me to clarify. This is just a comment to tell you more is coming!
abbyh said…

If the MOS is different than the DM, could they be different accounting which is why we see a lot more fluff during the week? and not so much on Sunday as they are being sued.
Unknown's first five sentences constitute a perfect description of my no2 husband's behaviour that wasn't accounted for by narcissism alone. After almost 40 years of wondering what the h*ll was going on, I can see that he exhibited the characteristics of both narcissism and psychopathy. At the time, I discovered about the concept of a personality disorder in relation to psychopathy and wondered if he was some sort of psychopath - nobody mentioned narcissism then.

Only much later did I realise that narcissism explained the rest of it, the attempts at gaslighting that almost succeeded, the way he turned friends against me and so on.

Many/?most of us have had bitter experience of narcissists, both pure and with added psychopathy.

We can smell 'em a mile off.
I recall typing `Bingo!' when we concluded that the evidence pointed to MM fulfilling all the requirements of the Dark Triad - narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism. It was Samantha's mention of her as a narcissist, way, way back when MM first drew attention to herself, that first put me onto her case and so far I have seen no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Marie - I take it you are a professional - Would you mind telling us more about your background, please? Thank you.
Marie said…
@Elle, So, the short version of this is: malignant narcissism is extremely evil, NPD is easily mistaken without in-person context and severity, diagnoses with labels are to heal and not to criticise, NPD requires severity, stigmatising narcissism may prevent people from understanding that in small doses it is actually can be helpful, many more explanations exist that haven't been discussed or explored. I will explain in-depth what I mean below:

My main problem is largely in calling her a narcissist to refer to "malignant" narcissism. I never got the feeling that you did that, though. In general, malignant narcissism isn't truly a working tool used by practicing psychologists, psychiatrists, or mental health therapists outside of films, old social-psychology papers, and reddit forums or blogs. Malignant narcissism is pretty much on par with severe psychopathy, i.e. truly evil and without regard for human life. I really dislike the blogs like a royal narcissist that sensationalise a real disorder that causes real distress to both the person and the people around them. Also, this is going to be an unpopular opinion but some people who have been hurt by a "narcissist" may have been betrayed by just a plain spiteful, selfish person yet need the name/label to deal with the betrayal because for them, it's a way of processing it. Sadly, emotional skills are not taught as a preventative measure but only after someone is much older and already hurting. If we could get society, schools, religious organisations, and families to teach tools to children in the same way they learn maths, reading, and writing, I do think society would be improved, both to reduce perpetrators and to help victims of emotional abuse or just plain nastiness. Until then, we have the current messes that we see everywhere from people unable to respond healthily and thoughtfully of others. Some people, as you have correctly commented, tend to lash out at others when they are caught behaving poorly. The cognitive dissonance of their self image contrasted with the complaint of an external person is simply too much for someone with low self-esteem or low emotional regulation or neuroticism to bear, and so they try to point fingers and say it's the other person's fault instead. That's not necessarily narcissism though.

Secondly, there's an opinion that such diagnoses, like anti-social personality disorder, should not be used to condemn or label or criticise someone but to help heal and improve quality of life. It's much like someone who is feeling chronically tired or can't lose weight but is dismissed by society as fabricating it or being lazy - giving them a diagnosis empowers them to feel like it is curable or at least manageable. A more concrete example, type 2 diabetes in the West is often correlated with morbid obesity, which is often very negatively viewed as a personality trait (oh that fat person is extremely lazy, lacks proper willpower, and eats too much.). Yet type 2 diabetes is seen as a medical diagnosis to propose a treatment, not as another way to criticise someone obese about their personal choices.

Part two to follow, due to character limits per post.
Marie said…
The colloquial usage of narcissist to refer to someone quite self-centered is different. I realise it's often impractical to always type "exhibiting traits of narcissism in her behaviours." And if I'm being honest, she might even be an actual high-functioning person suffering from NPD.

There are practical reasons why she might be an NPD, but we don't know for sure though. It's easy to underestimate how much context and severity are needed to truly apply the diagnostic tools of a checklist. People can display quite a few traits on the NPD checklist at any given time. From these blog comments alone, you could find these traits. Ambitious people tend to display even more; it's the negative effects that really push it over into the actual diagnosis, which again, is given (if at all) to heal and not to criticise or simply explain "Hey, guess what? You're an asshole. That will be 150 please."

Another reason is that narcissism or self-centeredness is actually can be considered a personality trait in everyone, but on a sliding scale. People who are extremely self-effacing, surprisingly also can be suffering from NPD. Narcissism in small doses can be considered to be healthy for self-identity and to get through difficult patches in life without giving up, so I feel uncomfortable stigmatising it as well. Besides, clinical NPD has many forms and subtypes aren't fully agreed upon yet. There's a developing part of research that is considering whether extreme altruism for the purpose of courting favour with a group might be a form of narcissism expressed by women, since NPD is actually more to be seen in men.

There are steps before a full-blown NPD as well. Neuroticism, or the tendency to make emotional experiences negative, is one of the Big 5 personality traits. Everyone has a range of neuroticism, but people scoring high on the scale, combined with low ability for emotional regulation, might exhibit traits we're seeing in Meghan's outbursts via the press. They would not be able to deal with criticism or minor frustrations, as well as be extremely emotional reactive. Combine that with insecurity or low self-esteem, you might get someone who is not able to maintain certain kinds of relationships. Her highly emotional, impulsive outbursts and cracks in her image are rather why I see her less as an NPD and more as someone who has problems with emotional regulation. She seems more like a young teenage girl.
Lemon Tea said…
Lemon Tea here

@Wizard Wench

Everything you said , makes absolute sense. Totally agree , the BRF will wait for the virus crisis to be over. I speculate months of anxiety on both sides.
xxxxx said…
@Sylvia

The song you quote for Megsy was written and sung by Al Jolson----California Here I Come by
Al Jolson

Wikipedia:
Jolson has been dubbed "the king of blackface" performers,[5][6] a theatrical convention since the mid-19th century. With his dynamic style of singing jazz and blues, he became widely successful by extracting traditionally African-American music and popularizing it for white American audiences who were otherwise not receptive to the originators.
Sylvia said…
@xxx Im so sorry I posted the song lyrics
I was really not aware of the implication I really didn't mean it to e offensiveI was unaware of the songs origins or singer just linking the song to the return to California as it being her home I realise now you've alerted me I stupidly just thought it an old song can I remove the comment?Thank you for pointing this out to me
Ballubas said…
@Henrietta

Your piece from TCD and comment "I think part of MM's problem is that BP stopped giving her any engagements at all." hits the nail on the head, would also go some way to explaining the "secret" visits
Fairy Crocodile said…
@Marie
Thank you for your overview. As you pointed, without access to her medical file nobody can definitely say if she sufferes from mental disorder or what type of disorder. The only comment I have to this is when I see a person who behaves like she does to others I do not go into reflection about the finer differences between emotional instability and mental illness. I simply stay away from this person. And sure thing I do not want this person to represent me in any way.
So I am glad she is no longer representing UK and extent of her mental problems is Harry's issue. I will also be glad if she lands something that will shut her up, although don't hold my breath on this one.
Teasmade said…
@Sylvia: The song is not racist. If we impose such facile censorship on ourselves, we are buying into the false narrative that has allowed Rachel to get away with her shenanigans.
Ava C said…
Just watching a YouTube documentary about the War of the Waleses and William and Harry as children, and you should see around the 20:40 mark, just after she'd got off that water slide in the theme park she took her sons to. An expression in Diana's eyes that is easily as scary as Meghan's eyes. Quite a shock to see it.

Gave me that feeling I wrote about once before, from one of the Meghan photos of her eyes. As if by looking at it I'd been cursed and there was no way back. Made me realise how thin a boundary there is between us 21st-century folk and our ancestors who feared meeting the eyes of a witch.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9MBokHhhPs

Sandie said…
@Marie: I think everyone here knows and acknowledges that we all have in us some degree of the same traits that are used to classify NPD (it's called healthy ego development) and how 'narcissistic' we are can fluctuate depending on circumstances. It is classified as a disorder if at least 5 of the list of 9 criteria can be applied to a person (in DSM-IV) consistently. (Like cancer, it is normal that is out of control and thus becomes toxic.) Since there are many variations of at least 5 out of 9, there are obviously different kinds of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).

DSM-V has changed the criteria around, but it still covers different forms of narcissism. You can compare the two in this document.

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/courses/materials/Narc.Pers.DSM.pdf

There are many people working with personality disorders who have gone into more detail in describing NPD and the different forms it can take. The DSM is not a fixed 'bible' of definitive and unchanging facts (it is regularly updated and changes for a new edition can be significant), but it is a useful starting point.

Repeated behaviours (in what she says and does, how she treats others, and so on) from Meghan tick enough criteria in DSM-IV and DSM-V to classify her as having NPD.

The causes of NDP were exclusively seen as a 'nurture' problem and someone with NPD was automatically diagnosed as being insecure 'inside'. Recent research have shown these to not be true: brain scans show that most people with NPD have brains that function in a specific way (less empathy) so NPD is caused by nature AND nurture, and diagnostic tests show that a significant number of people do not have that insecure inner self (e.g. they act like entitled arrogant jerks because they believe 100% that they are superior and deserve to have anything they want).

People with NPD will not seek help nor try to change their behaviour (something they have to learn as they do not feel and think in a way that makes responses like empathy natural) unless their life becomes unmanageable (much like an addict, and then there is still much resistance). Meghan's life is not unmanageable and her belief in self is not disturbed by what we see as setbacks (it is all someone else's fault and so far she has done extremely well with her social climbing with each man being more wealthy and famous than the last).
Portcitygirl said…
https://mol.im/a/8191333

Found this. #ArchieDay. Who is Archie?
Sandie said…
Some superb posts at LSA (starting from the one linked below) challenging what Meghan said about the 'British stiff upper lip' and 'how damaging it was to her'.

https://www.lipstickalley.com/threads/meghan-markle-unpopular-opinions-thread-pt-2.2215591/page-3379#post-56472505

Not freely expressing your feelings and thoughts in public does not mean that you do not acknowledge or express them at all.

1. Meghan completely misunderstood what a 'stiff upper lip' means.
2. She has no clue about the context of the 'British stiff upper lip' and thus was deeply insulting and unappreciative of what is an admirable British trait with a deep history.
3. She comes across as shallow, worshipping form above substance, filled with a sense of selfish entitlement, and very immature.
@ Marie -

As far as I can recall, from what I read 30 years ago in the Southampton University Library when I was trying to work out why my then husband behaved as he did, the difference, in law, between a mental illness and a personality disorder is that a mental illness is a departure from a person's usual mental state and there is the possibility of a cure, whereas a personality disorder is not curable - it's the just way they are/the way the person's brain is wired, if you like.

The distinction is important in English law because if determines whether offenders are put into secure hospital or a gaol, as a result of their crimes.

One recent report, from Univ of Belfast, IIRC, mentioned by the BBC, stated that narcissists are truly `horrible people' but it gives them an advantage - that is, they use it to ensure their `success' in life.

Many of us here have been screwed over by people who behave in these sorts of ways and we state when we are speaking from experience - that is, we are open about our evidence being anecdotal. You see, on this blog we expect to be called out if we make assertions without supporting evidence.

If it is something we have read in the papers, we provide a link. If it's from a book, we give a reference.

What pick up from MM, however is that she is someone whose behaviour is partly consistent with the way narcissists behave, partly how psychopaths behave and partly how Machiavellian people behave. If it quacks like duck...I daresay you know the rest.

I'd very much appreciate it if you would tell us where you are coming from in this. You are so very firm in your assertions.

I expect quite a few of us are used to reading and writing academic papers where references are mandatory and authors are expected to be clear about their position in the academic world, whether it's `Candidate for a Doctorate in Philosophy at University of X' or `Emeritus Professor of Neurology at University of Y'.

Are you a qualified psychiatrist/psychologist/GP/consultant or something else?

Where did you qualify? How many years have you been in practice? What specialist courses have you done?

Without this information, how can we know what weight to give to your assertions? If you are a Senior Consultant at the Maudesly Hospital in London, or any similar hospital, wherever it might be, please tell us. That'd be fine - we'd know to give your statements their proper respect.

See
https://www.nhs.uk/Services/hospitals/Overview/DefaultView.aspx?id=2775

Give us the receipts, as they say.

Otherwise we could easily draw an invalid inference.
Blogger Portcitygirl said...
"https://mol.im/a/8191333

Found this. #ArchieDay. Who is Archie?"

Inevitable!

Using the virus to draw attention/money to themselves. Just when you you think they couldn't possibly sink any lower, they do.
KCM1212 said…
@marie, @Sandie @ WBBM

Thank you for your insights into narcissism and NPD.
I never fail to learn something here.


@port city girl
I think the sugars have something planned for the whole month of April (until Archies birthday) to raise funds.

For a virulent bunch who will take the unwary commenter down like ravenous wolves take down a caribou, they seem to do some good.
More good than the a@@@@les in whose name they do that good.

I hope they never hand off those funds directly to the Sussexes. Although once their "charity" is established I suppose it's inevitable.

There is a little video touting their efforts

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g4QxYvB7DCA




Fifi LaRue said…
Hi Meghan! So that's what you're doing with your time, refuting all the charges of narcissism and psychopathy. Posting here is like taking a cup of water out of the ocean, it won't alleviate the opinions about you. We are all entitled to our opinions based on personal experiences with severely flawed personalities.
VE Day Friday 8th May - I daresay we'll be told how Archie won the War.
xxxxx said…
@Sylvia
There is nothing wrong with Al Jolson and his song "California Here I Come"
It's just not right for Megsy due to....Anyway the consensus here is Megsy playing the race card is a fraud because she has always lived white, was educated that way, her acting resume said white and Caucasian. And she has always married white men and only white boyfriends.
Portcitygirl said…
Thank you for the link kcm!

And Ava C thank you too- I really enjoyed the link you provided.
Anonymous said…
This comment has been removed by the author.

I hope I didn't come over as aggressive - I didn't mean to and I apologise if I did.

Perhaps I simply misjudged your tone, Marie.
Portcitygirl said…
KCM1212

That video was hard to watch. Why, I try to refrain from my usual potty mouth here, the f_ _ k
do they keep showing us the same dang video!! For the love of God, why not just give us a small updated clip? What are they waiting for? Do they have him or not? And no one gives a hoot about Archie right now and his "global philanthropists" parents. All we want to see or hear from the elite are their endeavors to help those on the frontline at this moment, not some
blah dee blah puff piece on some invisible child. Or better yet, disappear behind their glilded cage and resurface in a year.
Portcitygirl said…
The one thing I miss here is the edit button. Sigh. In a hurry.
Anonymous said…
@Marie,

Thank you for sharing the info. I was curious about your opinion, and I believe you made some valid points worthy of consideration. She does seem to have the qualities of a narcissist, but as you say, we don't know her, and it's hard to diagnose.

I also appreciate your willingness to express an opinion that goes against the group norm, and I'm glad that you elaborated. I think that we should all be able to express our opinions without fearing harassment and aggression, unless those opinions become personally nasty and/or bullying. And I've seen plenty of opinions expressed here that were wildly unsupported and still given consideration because they fit the group think. The next time I refer to Rachel as a narcissist, I'll qualify it because she may indeed just be a nasty piece of work.


@Sandie

Also, useful info! Especially this: The causes of NDP were exclusively seen as a 'nurture' problem and someone with NPD was automatically diagnosed as being insecure 'inside'. Recent research have shown these to not be true: brain scans show that most people with NPD have brains that function in a specific way (less empathy) so NPD is caused by nature AND nurture, and diagnostic tests show that a significant number of people do not have that insecure inner self (e.g. they act like entitled arrogant jerks because they believe 100% that they are superior and deserve to have anything they want).


In case anyone missed it, I asked Marie for the information and her opinion. I did so in good faith and because I was interested, not because I wanted to set her up for attack. Marie did not come here touting her opinion, but she did offer (and I was interested in hearing) a different PoV. I am pretty sure she's not Meghan. I edited my earlier response, however, because I didn't want to be the caribou. (Great line @KCM!)
Marie said…
@Sandie, I think perhaps my larger points were missed because I included too much other information to distract. So my two main problems are 1) the assumption that the DSM is a diagnostic tool to use on anyone they have never spoken to or observed in person. I even admit that perhaps Meghan could be a high-functioning person with NPD. Yet I do not think it is desirable to encourage people to diagnose others with a tool which comes under criticism for overdiagnosing and possible pathologizing the normal. 2) the typical malignant narcissism chain of logic "I can check-off NPD, and of course, NPD means only malignant narcissism, quod erat demonstrandum." It's not guilty until proven innocent, nor is it this diagnosis until proven otherwise.
And perhaps the most important, 3) Diagnoses are not labels to be used to criticise or stigmatise; it should be to heal or make a chronic condition/disorder manageable.

On a side note, as I don't want to bog down discussion over details: You likely already know but the DSM was developed first to adapt the ICD-9 for an American population. DSM-IV was a larger international effort, yet still there is a cultural dimension. Since the DSM-III, there has always been the opinion from certain groups that it has led to overdiagnosis and pathologizing of normality. Perhaps such a handbook is the best at the moment, but I imagine in 100-years, the paradigm might seem antiquated. I'm only surmising from your post, but you come across like a research scientist. Perhaps you then know of that metaphor of a man searching for his lost watch under a street lamp at night. When asked by a bystander why he was only looking there and other places, the man said, "Because it is the only light which I have to use." The latest DSM-V is not used by the NHS.
I also do not share your opinion "I think everyone here knows and acknowledges that we all have in us some degree of the same traits that are used to classify NPD (it's called healthy ego development) and how 'narcissistic' we are can fluctuate depending on circumstances," given the amount of in-fighting, suspicion of Meghan "sugars" infiltrating, and aggressive posturing. Cognitive biases and flaws in rational thinking are often difficult to self-identify for us all. So I hope you probably understand, opinions differ and the usefulness of the DSM falls under this. I hope you don't take the firmness of my assertions as somehow a critique of you personally or as an automatic insult to your background or experiences. I'm observing this is happening more than necessary on this blog when someone initially voices an opinion not shared by others here.

@Fairy Crocodile, fair enough point you make and I agree with you here. I am also completely fine with describing Meghan's behaviour with the Royal Family and UK taxfunds disgraceful, and emotional instability is not any better. I completely agree that it's a bit of a mouthful to use such language and that the colloquial use of "narc" to express that is not really an issue with me.
Marie said…
Thank you, @Elle and everyone else to take time to read my posts, even if you disagreed! I enjoyed writing them, although they were a bit hastily written out.
Marie said…
@Sandie, rereading my post, I think it came off as if I found you criticising my post unfairly. I did not, for the record. I found your comment quite measured, even though we will disagree on a few points.
Anonymous said…
@Marie, I thought you made your arguments very well, and I think it is important to examine issues from all sides (though sometimes it is extremely painful lol). I also agree that @Sandie'sresponse was fair and interesting. As to what I believe, IDK re clinical diagnosis. I do believe she's a fame-seeking energy-suck of a person for whom everything will never be enough, and I believe she is willing to step on and hurt anyone and everyone who won't give her what she wants in that moment. But does that mean she's NPD? I just don't know.
CatEyes said…
@Marie

Well said and I agree, much has been said here by people claiming Meghan Has NPD. Yet 90% (I figure is a good guesstimate) is what she does is behind closed doors and therefore not a basis for people here to judge. Then there is !00% of knowledge by posters as to what goes on in her head. The there is the issue of amateurs proclaiming someone someone has a mental illness such as NPD.

As I have said yesterday, I stand up for fairness and that is why I never said Meghan had NPD or called her a Narcissist. Thank you for your cogent and intelligent explanation.

Now if people will quit committing libel by saying Harry is taking drugs (no facts to support such a horrendous allegation) or Archie doesn't exist. Can't imagine the harm done to that poor child by posters saying these things about his parents (which one day he might find out easily).
Fairy Crocodile said…
@Marie

I would be glad if you post more often because you help to keep our wilder assumptions in check. This is very good for the general quality of this blog.

If you have a moment perhaps you could share your view of how relations between the like of Harry and the like of Meghan can develop?
Sandie said…
@Marie:
@Sandie, I think perhaps my larger points were missed because I included too much other information to distract.


I did not miss anything nor was distracted by being given too much information.

Cognitive biases and flaws in rational thinking are often difficult to self-identify for us all. ... So I hope you probably understand, opinions differ and the usefulness of the DSM falls under this. I hope you don't take the firmness of my assertions as somehow a critique of you personally or as an automatic insult to your background or experiences. I'm observing this is happening more than necessary on this blog when someone initially voices an opinion not shared by others here.

You seem to be making assumptions about me and pronouncing sweeping judgement on others that may sound grand but are actually coming across as accusations to shut down dissent, dressed up as something else. You may be convinced that Meghan does not have NPD (I use that term to differentiate between normal and toxic narcissistic traits),
but to accuse those who disagree with you of having 'cognitive bias' and 'flaws in rational thinking' is something you perhaps need to back down from and the passive aggressive statement that follows perhaps needs to be withdrawn. We are all human and get carried away and cross the line.

May I just point out that I have not come across any diagnosis of NPD that includes that a person is cold, calculating, non-emotional so your assertion that Meghan does not fit the criteria because she is emotional does not makes sense. My own experience of full-blown narcs is that they can be very emotional ... the initial tantrum from narcissistic injury is frightening to see and often leads to rash and damaging (for others) actions. In addition, Meghan has demonstrated that she can cry/show emotion on cue without having any context, so any emotional response from her on camera is suspect. She does not meet the criteria to be labelled a psychopath (and the Hare diagnostic tool is most useful and also shows that we all have some of the traits and it is all about how many and to what extent - I have done the test and in the UK and USA fall well under the level to be labelled a psychopath but I certainly do not score zero).

Although narcissists and psychopaths share traits they are very different. Some folk here are convinced that Meghan can be labelled a psychopath but I think a different approach is being taken that I do not fully understand and it is not about using the DSM but looking at personality traits that fit three different disorders (NPD, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism). There are folk here who understand this much better than I do and can explain much better than I can.

The NHS in the UK may not use the DSM-V to diagnose NPD, but the criteria is very similar. However, the causes they give for NPD do not take into account the latest research. The recommended treatment is counselling, psychotherapy, group therapy and medication (for depression and anxiety), but the NHS acknowledges that those with NPD do not think there is a problem until they experience depression, severe anxiety, addiction or substance abuse ...

Marie, I do not treat the DSM as a bible not to be questioned, as I pointed out.

Perhaps you could clearly list and explain why you think Meghan does not fit the criteria to be labelled with NPD. There is a bit of a problem if you refuse to do so because you discount the validity of all tests, or use examples that do not relate to any test at all. If you are convinced she does not have NPD, show us. This post is getting very long, so I will list various lists and tests you can use:

Sandie said…
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder/

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

https://www.msdmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/personality-disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-npd

... and so on.

The reality is that people do have access to a lot of information, do have personal experience, and are able to recognise repeated behaviour in a public person. Because this is the 'chatty' part of the blog, we often forget to say 'IMO' and 'I think' or 'I feel' and so on but it is usually implied. Information is often shared here for feedback to verify or label as questionable. There are even some subjects where there are distinctly different camps (e.g. is Archie real, is he their child is a classic) but no one insults or throws shade at others and every few posts it comes up again and we go through the while discussion again and leave with our own opinions unchanged (I think Archie is real and is their child and Megsy was pregnant but acknowledge that there is a lot of 'very odd' stuff that I just cannot explain and I just live with this huge cognitive dissonance!).
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 Not much appears to be going on. Living Legends came and went without fanfare ... what's the next event?   Super Bowl - Sunday February 11th?  Oscar's - March 10th?   In the mean time, some things are still rolling along in various starts and stops like Samantha's law suit. Or tax season is about to begin in the US.  The IRS just never goes away.  Nor do bills (utility, cable, mortgage, food, cars, security, landscape people, cleaning people, koi person and so on).  There's always another one.  Elsewhere others just continue to glide forward without a real hint of being disrupted by some news out of California.   That would be the new King and Queen or the Prince/Princess of Wales.   Yes there are health risks which seemed to come out of nowhere.  But.  The difference is that these people are calmly living their lives with minimal drama.  

As Time Passes and We Get Older

 I started thinking about how time passes when reading some of the articles about the birthday.  It was interesting to think about it from the different points of view.  Besides, it kind of fits as a follow up the last post (the whole saga of can the two brothers reunite). So there is the requisite article about how he will be getting all kinds of money willed to him from his great-grandmother.  There were stories about Princess Anne as trustee (and not allowing earliest access to it all).  Whether or not any or all of this is true (there was money for him and/or other kids) has been debated with claims she actually died owing money with the Queen paying the debts to avoid scandal.  Don't know but I seem to remember that royal estates are shrouded from the public so we may not (ever) know. However, strange things like assisting in a book after repeated denials have popped up in legal papers so nothing is ever really predicable.   We are also seeing more articles which not only talk

The Opening Act of New Adventures in Retail

 I keep thinking things will settle down to the lazy days of spring where the weather is gorgeous and there is a certain sense of peacefulness.  New flowers are coming out. increasing daylight so people can be outside/play and thinking gardening thoughts.  And life is quiet.  Calm. And then something happens like a comet shooting across the sky.  (Out of nowhere it arrives and then leaves almost as quickly.)   An update to a law suit.  Video of the website is released (but doesn't actually promote any specific product which can be purchased from the website).  A delay and then jam is given out (but to whom and possible more importantly - who did not make the list?).  Trophies almost fall (oops).  Information slips out like when the official date of beginning USA residency.  (now, isn't that interesting?) With them, it's always something in play or simmering just below the surface.  The diversity of the endeavors is really quite impressive.  This award, polo, speech, speech,